Sivin Kit's Adventures

Archive for April, 2005

someone asked me about the Apocrypha last night … I realised though I had some basic answer and reponse which I think is ok – my historical and content details are very rusty (*grin*).

I think many of the new Christians who come to our church have asked this before why there are more books in the Roman Catholic Bible. So, when I saw the book above for such a good price at the Glad Sounds bookstore sales .. I quickly got one for the church library. I think it’s a good intro to the questions and issues raised by inquisitive friends..

Here’s what Scot McKnight, Karl A. Olsson Professor in Religious Studies, North Park University blurbs for the book ..
“When it comes to books on the Bible, students are often forced to choose between technical systematic theology or detailed commentaries; a good book on the Bible as Bible is hard to find. Further, what students often look for are “facts” about the Bible (how it came into being, how books were selected, how the manuscripts fared, and how the translations were undertaken) and this book admirably provides the kind of facts students need. Charts are abundant, tables everywhere, and the text clearly written and clarifyingly illustrated. This is a delightful book which will serve generations to come.

Here’s a summary & review of the book!

Just glancing through it a while ago I think the visuals will enhance the usefulness for new comers to the faith and those who are interested in the Bible. We’ll leave the more complicated debates another time …

It’s rare for Mama May Chin to come out with something creative like this naming … this little pink bear – Sally! It’s a cute gift given by our German friends and suits Elysia just nice.

Elysia has been growing healthy and fine. It’s been quite an adjustment but very much rewarding in all aspects! I love it when she starts doing her “baby talk” thing … and her look really is magnetic huh? I hope this photo brightens up everyone who comes to visit this blog today!

Thanks Prodigal Kiwi for the link … and introducing the book. I’ve always been facinated by the monastic movement in the early church. Now it’s interesting to see how this New Monasticism plays its role for church and society today.

Walking through these 12 marks will prove challenging and life changing:

1) Relocation to the abandoned places of Empire.

2) Sharing economic resources with fellow community members and the needy among us.

3) Hospitality to the stranger

4) Lament for racial divisions within the church and our communities
combined with the active pursuit of a just reconciliation.

5) Humble submission to Christ’s body, the church.

6) Intentional formation in the way of Christ and the rule of the
community along the lines of the old novitiate.

7) Nurturing common life among members of intentional community.
Support for celibate singles alongside monogamous married couples and their children.

9) Geographical proximity to community members who share a common rule of life.

10) Care for the plot of God’s earth given to us along with support of our local economies.

11) Peacemaking in the midst of violence and conflict resolution within communities along the lines of Matthew 18.

12) Commitment to a disciplined contemplative life.

May God give us grace by the power of the Holy Spirit to discern rules for living that will help us embody these marks in our local contexts as signs of Christ’s kingdom for the sake of God’s world.

I’ve been leaving comments quite a bit lately on other people’s blogs .. I thought I’d just share some while linking the original posts.

On A Question of Church (1)

while I was driving to work today .. my mind was thinking about how all this may translate in Malaysia.

Karen does wonderful job highlighting the incarnation and the trinity. I lean along the same lines.

I was thinking how I found it helpful to start with Jesus – thus incarnation – life, death, resurrection and ascension.
then consider the Spirit especially in the creation of the church. And then back into how all this is realized in the world and benefits the world – thus like going full circle back to the Creator. It’s walking through the apostle’s creed but starting with the second article, then third and then back to the first.

am I making sense or just rambling?

On A Question of Church (2)

I agree that history is important .. much has gone before us. My concern in a place like Malaysia for example that there are some who advocate a “calvinist” or “reformed” agenda maybe too tighly (as if it’s timeless) where as I’d prefer to respectfully engage whether it’s our Lutheran, Reformed or methodist heritage (that came with the missionary package)not that rigidly taking seriously the timeliness of the context of the reformation for example.

I think then I don’t have to uncritically accept everything, and not throw all of their insights out and act as if I’m starting from scratch. because the reality is I’m not!

On Emergent divergence
Sivin Kit said…

This is another crucial point, I’d shout yes! My first intro to Brian McLaren was “The Church on the other Side” and some personal emails. Then after having better online access, I discovered a much wider discussion on the “emerging church” – like in Australia and New Zealand, and of course UK. I think being “conversant” with the others like Dan Kimball (liked his charts!), Andrew Jones (awesome blogger), Tony Jones (enjoyed his practical theology bent), Doug Pagitt(I’m less familiar until I read his book) is paramount … then there’s Jason Clark in the UK (who has become a personal friend). I find the dynamism of having them as “conversational partners” to be very helpful. At least, to keep the global feel of my personal reflections.

But then again, because of the profilic publishing (traditional as well as internet) in the west, we hear more of you and you hear about what we think here in Asia, Africa or South America Hopefully that will change soon.

another spot on observation!

On Missional and holistic
sivin kit said…

Thanks for your excellent interaction with Carsons’ upcoming book. As an Asian (more specifically Malaysia Chinese) 33year old pastor in a mainline Lutheran denonimation I was first drawn into the emergent & wider emerging church conversation because of the “missional” & “holistic” emphasis and posture. I was aware of the “postmodern” context discussion and I’ve eavesdropped quite a while and found it helpful. But when all is said and done, the discussions on epistemology though are important are not what I relate to the most. Thus, I think your point in this post is spot on!

Systematic Theology: Volume 3 by Wolfhart Pannenberg (book review)
I was glancing through some parts of chapters on church which is indeed substantial while putting Gareth to sleep. I thought might as well read a review by Robert Jenson to get a broad feel …

Wolfhart Pannenberg: God the Spirit – and Natural Science
Some have called him an “eschatological realist” and a great interdisciplinary thinker , here’s a chance to hear and see Prof. Pannenberg in action.- i.e. speak on the subject of theology and science. Tell me whether you can follow the lecture if you are multi-tasking …

Four questions that every religion must answer
Just caught my attention …

A Question of Church (1) & A Question of Church (2)
The subject of “church” is very much occupying my mind right now.

It’s been quite a fruitful two days. Yesterday I had a chance to sit through some lectures on “Preaching Prophetic Narratives” by Princeton Prof. Seow which as always was insighful – he worked through passages from 1 Kings 19-21 and 2 Kings 5 and I felt it helped me appreciate good exegetical work combined with theological connections with our context today. The overdose of dim sum and conversations during lunch was memorable too

I managed to borrow 6 books from
the local seminary to get my more focused wider reading started. It’s already April and I’m only at a brainstorming stage with a few “hunches” …

Talking with Dr. Ng was helpful today just to get a feel of some areas that I may have missed and possible resource people I could get in touch with. I felt really affirmed in choosing my concentration on Ecclesiology for my Masters programme. Ms. Wong was also kind enough to point me to The Lausanne Committee for World Evangelization and check out some recent work from Evangelicals.

Loads of thoughts floating right now .. like .. it’s those “I wonder” moments .. very scattered though …

- I wonder what was the understanding of church like during the Patristic period? how was the interaction between the apostolic fathers and the desert fathers? what about the church as it was moving toward Asia?
- I wonder what has been our Asian self-understanding of the church especially after the “missionary” era? maybe engaging Lesslie Newbigin and Vincent Donovan might be helpful .. as they kind of were in the Asia & Africa and then returned to UK and USA. hmmm … of course, then that leads to some interest in the Gospel and Culture Network in UK, and also in USA as well as
New Zealand, the overall emerging church conversations and Emergent (as a more organized attempt) specifically.
- I wonder who has written specifically on church from Malaysia or Asia(I heard that there a substantial theological work from Singapore)? How do we think about church, be church and do church here? where can we move forward? I know fragments here or there and the Roman Catholic Bishops in Asia have been working on it. I found something from the Christian Conference of Asia yesterday at the library.
- of course, as a Lutheran, I’ve wondered about early German Pietism and its relationship with institutional Lutheranism of its time.
- so lots of “wondering” (not “wandering” .. though there’s an element of that too!)
- of course apart from the content, I’m also wondering how to work out the modules I would like to take and the possible workable thesis proposal etc. It;s not OhD, but it’s definatelt a personal quest.

Thanks DJ Chuang for this article by Tim Dearborn, The Emerging Church: The Old Church Made New. It’s encouraging to read from a western American perspective how the emerging church in Asia, Africa and Latin America can impact American Christianity. So, has the age of genuine, level, equal conversation and partnership begun? I suppose both sides already have people working on it …

Here’s some statements and stories that caught my attention:

“… Obviously, the world is messy and the church complex. Any generalizations are suspect. To attempt to categorize and distinguish Western evangelicalism with the emerging Christian movement in the two-thirds world is laden with hazards. If there are indeed two streams, at times they flow together and at times flow in divergent directions. Much of the world church is flowing in a stream toward the Western church, attracted to American evangelicalism with our affluence and technology, our emphasis on individual freedom and fulfillment and our entrepreneurial zeal. Just as the world imports western pop culture and seeks to emigrate to gain access to western affluence, so it adopts western church forms. I’ve sung “Shine Jesus Shine” in 7 countries on 3 continents in the past year. The Jesus Film, Purpose Driven Life, Prayer of Jabez, Maxwell’s Principles of Leadership and Alpha are omnipresent in the world. Unquestionably God is using these tools. However, they risk imposing Western cultural and theological forms. They risk participating in the Western imperial rule. Recently a group of mission leaders met in LA to design web-based strategies of evangelism. When someone cautioned that they needed to make sure their messages were culturally appropriate, the leader of one organization retorted, “If it’s good enough for America it’s good enough for the world.”

Yet at the same time, there is a current moving away from the West—concerned about our individualized, consumer-oriented religion. There are several distinct marks of this church:

1. It is digging deep into traditional cultural forms, rejecting Western styles of church life and theology.
2. It is highly charismatic, relying on the Spirit rather than money
3. Anointed leaders guide its life, regardless of their academic training; generally with high authority and conservative morality.
4. Worship is a dramatic encounter with the power of God, rather than a passive and comforting moment of education and encouragement.
5. Its community is a gathering of people rather than a cluster of programs and activities.
6. Mission is a daily encounter with the demonic and evil, conducted through spiritual battle, suffering and a holistic engagement with the world; for all of life is deemed as the domain of God, with social, economic and even political ministry integral to church life.

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I felt really proud of Gareth today on his first day at “school” (actually it’s nursery …). We went scouting around the other day .. and managed to find three church related kindergartens. Each has their uniqueness. One was very small, the other that has lots of space and one more pretty sophisticated. This brings back loads of memories for me because Mom actually was the cook and helper at the church nursery/kindergarten that I was going to when I was around three.

We thought it might be nice for Gareth to make some friends … at the end we chose the 1st one we visited. It’s a small one next to the Anglican church nearby.

Gareth seemed excited this morning and a little apprehensive. It’s a big step for our shy son. He walked into the little compound himself with his “school bag”. The headmistress greeted us with a smile as well as the other teachers and also the kids.

Once Gareth got his new uniform on we went to the “singing session”. he just stood there to get himself “orientated”. As the father I just stuck around nearby. I think it was more for me then him! (Apparently, May Chin expected me to go off .. but I misunderstood her instructions and stayed on throughout – which was ok! I had a chair nearby and did my work there.)

During the break, he really enjoyed the biscuits and the companionship around him – ok! especially the extra biscuits the teacher gave him. His joy was so contagious …

As parents we don’t expect a lot of academic stuff or pressure on Gareth now. As long as he enjoyes himself, learns someting, plays with others, socialize with kids around his age that would be great.

We felt good that we could support a church kindergarten as well … we could see clearly that there wasn’t any “profit-mindedness” lurking anywhere … which we really appreciate.

We’re just thankful .. again how things are working out. It’s a trial run actually … but if it works out (which is very likely) .. then Gareth is going to have a new routine. He did excellent today … GOOD Job, Gareth!

The ‘Not Jesus’ Videos
I’m downloading them now … thanks for the links from Conrad Gempf

Hangin’ with Mr Hunter
I really miss those phone calls, Todd! Thanks anyway. Every single one helped me move forward …

Internet Archive (Movie Archive)
I’ll go crazy ….

Graphical view of Biblical narrative timeline (via Pat Loughery again)
The “wider” – “big picture” really helps!

When I first came across Reinventing the Church around 1999 I knew I wanted to get the book (especially after reading a favourable review from NEXT WAVE) . So my friend Daniel got it from Bookstore and sent it to me. This was my first Brian McLaren book which blew me away (I’mean challenged me and comforted me at the same time!) Those days he was an unknown.

Here’s how it looked like (before the revised edition) I think there’s still one copy at the Glad Sounds Resource Centre near my house It’s interesting to compare the reviews on this book in Amazon with the Church on the Other Side.

Anyway, I was asked by Kairos Reseach Centre to write a book review on a book I was passionate about guess which one I chose (this was my maiden book review so I’m still very romantic about it *grin*)? Check out the cover of the magazine …

Anway, why all this little history? I guess I’m gearing up how would I respond (in my view) to questions like “What is emergent?” , “Why are you engaged in this?”, “Seeing as one of the emergent values is missional, to whom is your mission?” kind of questions. Way before “emerging church”, “emergent” or even “postmodern” became buzz words, or labels or whatever .. it was simply a genuine resonance with ideas and questions and possible directions to move forward. Of course, now I might explore the word “post-colonial”, “post-western”, or even “global” to engage further in conversation … but then words are meant to help, clarify, stimulate not make things too difficult

I liked the book because it gave me a picture of how a pastor “reflectively” works through the pressing challenges before him and doesn’t want to be boxed up in pre-fixed answers or pre-packaged mindsets. I gave one away two weeks ago to a fellow pastor friend who was open to share what’s going on in the head and the heart in the midst of challenging ministry situations. I felt this book might open up some possibilities or hope (which it gave me)

So here’s my maiden book review written in 2002. I’ll probably follow up with a second thoughts kind of post later.
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