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	<title>Comments on: Friends 2007: QRoH Notes [33]</title>
	<link>http://sivinkit.net/archives/2299</link>
	<description>happenings in my head and heart this side of heaven</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sivin</title>
		<link>http://sivinkit.net/archives/2299#comment-2096</link>
		<dc:creator>Sivin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:44:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sivinkit.net/archives/2299#comment-2096</guid>
		<description>BTW, after reading Ray Anderson's other books ... I think he's one theologian I'll listen to.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, after reading Ray Anderson&#8217;s other books &#8230; I think he&#8217;s one theologian I&#8217;ll listen to.</p>
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		<title>By: Sivin</title>
		<link>http://sivinkit.net/archives/2299#comment-2095</link>
		<dc:creator>Sivin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 00:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sivinkit.net/archives/2299#comment-2095</guid>
		<description>Alex, here's some quick links of the wider global conversation which I've been watching:
http://emergent-uk.org/ (our relationship with Jason Clark  has been very key as far as our conversation in Malaysia is concerned.  This goes back to pre-controversy days where we were quietly having a nourishing discussion in a small group at my church.  Jason as well as Brian Mclaren has been instrumental in getting us started and encouraging us along the way)

Two other interesting outside of USA examples are worth mentioning:
http://www.emergentafrica.com/
and 
http://www.emergent.ca/
(especially the Canadian network: for example the following statement: "We are friends with Emergent Village US and UK, and have great respect for both those groups and the people within, but we are completely autonomous. At present the name 'emergent' has been retained, because we believe its usefulness as a known gateway (brand ;-) into missional/emerging church conversation, outweighs the negatives of association." which in many ways does articulate how the core group feels ...

so maybe your proposal might be a good way forward, "emerging conversations".  I think it's a matter of being more inclusive.  I'm open for that idea ... but at present I also feel being defined by self-appointed critics has not been helpful and in fact unfair.

perhaps this is why we still kept the name "emergent Malaysia" as a network or gathering space for "emerging conversations" (to use your term) but like the others in UK, Africa and Canada (none of us are mouthpieces of Emergent Village USA, we are friends that should be ok right?).  I still joke about calling ourselves "Rumah goreng pisang" in Malaysia but somehow that didn't get us invited to a local research commission for a little interview.  

I do recognize the reality of guilt by association. But then again, even those whom have been criticized rightly or wrongly (especially people like Brian and even Tony Jones) are still friends.   There are times when I wouldn't say things the way they say it (considering our context and theirs are different).  And yet, there is much that they are raising especially as a self-examination of Christianity (or evangelicalism) in the USA which I think is helpful because how much we are influenced by USA versions of Evangelicalism (including the Charismatic &#038; Pentecostal influence thrown in).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex, here&#8217;s some quick links of the wider global conversation which I&#8217;ve been watching:<br />
<a href="http://emergent-uk.org/" rel="nofollow">http://emergent-uk.org/</a> (our relationship with Jason Clark  has been very key as far as our conversation in Malaysia is concerned.  This goes back to pre-controversy days where we were quietly having a nourishing discussion in a small group at my church.  Jason as well as Brian Mclaren has been instrumental in getting us started and encouraging us along the way)</p>
<p>Two other interesting outside of USA examples are worth mentioning:<br />
<a href="http://www.emergentafrica.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.emergentafrica.com/</a><br />
and<br />
<a href="http://www.emergent.ca/" rel="nofollow">http://www.emergent.ca/</a><br />
(especially the Canadian network: for example the following statement: &#8220;We are friends with Emergent Village US and UK, and have great respect for both those groups and the people within, but we are completely autonomous. At present the name &#8216;emergent&#8217; has been retained, because we believe its usefulness as a known gateway (brand <img src='http://sivinkit.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> into missional/emerging church conversation, outweighs the negatives of association.&#8221; which in many ways does articulate how the core group feels &#8230;</p>
<p>so maybe your proposal might be a good way forward, &#8220;emerging conversations&#8221;.  I think it&#8217;s a matter of being more inclusive.  I&#8217;m open for that idea &#8230; but at present I also feel being defined by self-appointed critics has not been helpful and in fact unfair.</p>
<p>perhaps this is why we still kept the name &#8220;emergent Malaysia&#8221; as a network or gathering space for &#8220;emerging conversations&#8221; (to use your term) but like the others in UK, Africa and Canada (none of us are mouthpieces of Emergent Village USA, we are friends that should be ok right?).  I still joke about calling ourselves &#8220;Rumah goreng pisang&#8221; in Malaysia but somehow that didn&#8217;t get us invited to a local research commission for a little interview.  </p>
<p>I do recognize the reality of guilt by association. But then again, even those whom have been criticized rightly or wrongly (especially people like Brian and even Tony Jones) are still friends.   There are times when I wouldn&#8217;t say things the way they say it (considering our context and theirs are different).  And yet, there is much that they are raising especially as a self-examination of Christianity (or evangelicalism) in the USA which I think is helpful because how much we are influenced by USA versions of Evangelicalism (including the Charismatic &#038; Pentecostal influence thrown in).</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Tang</title>
		<link>http://sivinkit.net/archives/2299#comment-2094</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Tang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 17:56:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sivinkit.net/archives/2299#comment-2094</guid>
		<description>sivin,

I agree with you about the usage of the word 'emerging churches' which is good. However 'emergent conversation' may be misunderstood as a voicepiece of the Emergent village. Would 'emerging conversations' be a better choice of terminology. :) Just my two cents worth.

I like Anderson's book. I think it is about time someone come out with an 'emergent theology'. However a truly 'emergent theology' must be built on a strong theological construct, not on church practices and experimentations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sivin,</p>
<p>I agree with you about the usage of the word &#8216;emerging churches&#8217; which is good. However &#8216;emergent conversation&#8217; may be misunderstood as a voicepiece of the Emergent village. Would &#8216;emerging conversations&#8217; be a better choice of terminology. <img src='http://sivinkit.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Just my two cents worth.</p>
<p>I like Anderson&#8217;s book. I think it is about time someone come out with an &#8216;emergent theology&#8217;. However a truly &#8216;emergent theology&#8217; must be built on a strong theological construct, not on church practices and experimentations.</p>
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