Sivin Kit’s Garden

Thanks Tony Jones, for a glimpse to into what’s emerging …:-)

I watched all three of the clips at one go and thoroughly enjoyed myself

Emergent Village Coordinator, Author and my friend Tony Jones looks like he’s having a great time too!

There’s quite a lot of ground covered here in such a short time.

I love the ending … or shall I say the "beginning"? In many ways for many people we can honestly relate to what Tony talks about on the question of faith  in various degrees

Brian McLaren Responds to Everything Must Change Concerns

As a pastor, I say Amen to Brian here …

I was deeply impacted a few years ago by Alan Roxburgh at one of our events (you may have been there?) when he said, the church is like a person who gets invited to a party and only talks about himself. I’ve been thinking that we get into a syndrome of trying to save our lives denominationally, etc, which makes us lose them … when instead, our churches need to lose our lives, pour ourselves out for the sake of the world, become more interested in joining God in caring for the world than in getting God to join us in caring for ourselves, that sort of thing. But of course, at heart I’ll always be a pastor, and in the end, none of this matters unless it’s embedded in local churches of whatever form.

I De/Renounce You!

I can relate to some of this … don’t you?

Dan Kimball was recently peppered with questions about Brian, Doug, and me when he spoke at the Crystal Cathedral. I often get asked to defend Doug’s views on soteriology or the Trinity. And just last week, a caller to a conservative Christian radio talk show I was on asked me how I could be friends with Brian since he practices Buddhism.

Of course, I was shocked to learn that one of my closest friends is a closet Buddhist. Brian, I feel so betrayed. I barely knew ye!

But this demand to denounce and renounce friends has come into high relief in the presidential campaign. And, honestly, I think that most of us can see how insane it all is. In another prescient column, Stanley Fish argues that, of course, we can only be responsible for what we say, not for what those close to us say.

Which Way to the "Third Way"?

Good turn by my friend Steve Knight …

The ‘third way’ isn’t a point on a spectrum between ‘liberal’ and ‘conservative.’ The ‘third way’ is another parallel spectrum altogether, that I would say is above (and transcends) the liberal/conservative spectrum. The ‘third way’ is relationship/friendship, and the spectrum is simply how close/tight-knit or far/separate we are relationally. …

“To put it one way: The question isn’t so much ‘how are we different in what we believe/think?’ as it is ‘how are we connected? what can I appreciate and learn from that other person’s perspective/tradition/tribe/camp?’”

Why we are open to the Emergent Conversation: My journey, and books along the way

A mouthful here from an excellent survey …

We rejected an over-rigid or over-important theology to show that a God-breathed lifestyle demanded a Christian perspective and imaginative re-construal of every area of life, in light of God’s Word, not just in doctrinal matters.  Systematic theology, for better or worse, became less vital as we embrace narrative, Biblical theology.  To argue over theological arcana when we didn’t equally argue about aesthetics or politics or psychological theory seemed to be suggesting that doctrinal fine-tuning was more important than being faithful to the Lord in every field of life, as if the specialty of theologians and pastors somehow mattered to God more than the work of potters or farmers or businesspeople.  And we knew that that was to make theology itself an idol—-all of life was to be redeemed, so doctrinal disputes and denominational matters took a back seat to the big issues of the day, the concerns of lay folk in their particular callings, and the vision of a multi-dimensional, uniquely Christian world and life view.  We thought this, as I recall, not because we didn’t think theology mattered—it does—but because the Bible doesn’t itself over-indulge in rationalistic doctrinal formulations; most of the Bible is story, history, poems and laments, after all.  Scripture itself is a storied telling of God’s redemptive work in history, forming a people who live differently, filled, finally, with the love of a Risen Redeemer, a gracious King who is reclaiming his hurting world.  I heard 35 years ago from conservative scholars that even Paul was to be read narratively (an important insight of most emergent Bible readers nowadays, and a matter for which they are considered controversial.)  So we thought about a Christian view of life, including theology, but didn’t make theological precision the only important concern. Our dogma and creedal life was seen as part of our whole worldview and way of life, an all-encompassing, whole-life opening up of life in the Spirit in God’s good but fallen creation. We really didn’t care how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.

An Efficient Gospel?

Always good to return to the Gospel … I’m glad Tim Keel’s voice is emerging more! A big amen to the following statement!

The gospel must become incarnate. It’s something that must be lived. We cannot approach God or the gospel a-contextually.

My friend Tony Jones is pretty good in articulating his thoughts moving at ease with word pictures to more than one syllable words!

It’s been a while since I’ve done this, before the Chinese New Year Celebrations wrap up, I’ll post up some long overdue links.

Pubs, Clubs and Altworship

Eye-grabbing title to draw the discussion deeper into more critical concerns. check out some main themes the author brings out:

Community:  Emergent Christians place a premium on community, living life together in all its messiness. However, community can take many shapes, and emergent or altworship communities often do not resemble traditional church community with a paid staff and centralized leadership.  It’s a dispersed community that is lived in the rough-and-tumble of everyday life.  So a premium is placed on togetherness, journeying with and alongside others.

Transformation:  Emergent types are passionate about transformation, both personal and structural.  They tend not to view themselves as finished products, as “saved” or even as “Christian.”  Instead, they speak of themselves as “being saved” and “becoming Christian.”  They tend to be political activists and socially “liberal” in the sense that they care deeply about the proverbial “widow, orphan and alien,” those who are marginalized, oppressed, and disenfranchised and about changing the personal and structural realities that perpetuate the disenfranchisement and marginalization.  They believe that engaging in such tasks is to follow Jesus.

Worship:  Emerging Christians are innovative and imaginative in the aesthetics of worship, and they are technologically savvy.  They’re sacramental and incarnational, sometimes employing large-scale transformative theatre (Ikon). Revelation, one of the communities we visited, offers a sophisticated blend of ancient ritual and liturgy and cutting-edge image technology and participation. Typical of the worship in these communities is worship that engages us as whole and embodied beings, providing a feast for most if not all of our sensory modalities: sight, sound, smell, and tactile experience.

Social Engagement: Emerging Christians enthusiastically endorse Jesus’ claim that “by their fruits you will know them.”  Thus, they seek to be active agents of God’s reconciling, redemptive, and restorative agenda in and for the world. 

ep 6.9 - Tony Jones & The New Christians

One thing for sure Tony Jones is excited about the book! Tallskinnykiwi gives his take on Tony Jones: The New Christians … where he says,

The New Christians its a good and enjoyable book. Its not as eloquent nor as grand as Brian McLaren in Everything Must Change but its more gritty and personable and locked on to the expected grids of contemporary theological thinking, yet at the same time avoiding polarities and divisive categories.
Shoot . . that was a really long sentence . .
And it is not as deliciously subtle as Pete Rollins in How (Not) To Speak of God but it is more approachable and explanatory. Tony often pauses to define the words he is using for those who need an onramp to the conversation.

In fact, that is what the book is to me: an onramp for those who want to join the conversation, and a scrapbook of thoughts and memories for those who have been coming along for the ride.

O Lord, Deconstruct Me!

I’m not surprised Tony would choose a blog title like this.

What I’m most afraid of, I suppose (and I fear this for Jack, too), is that someone would hear my answers to a few of the hot questions of the day and call me a "liberal." Or a "conservative."  In my mind, I’m clearly neither, and I want to be neither.  I want to be "beyond liberal and conservative" — a phrase I both use and hear a lot — whatever that means.

Common Misconceptions About Emergent

Interesting little bit … with my friend DJ Chuang’s name thrown in.

I had a great conversation with DJ Chuang about this the other day for an upcoming podcast. He made an excellent point that what most white, male emergents are wrestling with and practicing is not the same type of things nor theology that 2nd generation, Asian Americans are wrestling with and practicing. But that doesn’t make them any less emergent. They are simply doing their theology and practicing their theologies in different contexts. They are not branded or labeled as Emergent, but rather they are doing emergent and are very much a part of the spirit of emergent.

A battle cry for Christian reform

I’ve always felt Brian does well in interviews …

But some Christians may see the title of your book and worry that you’re saying that what also needs changing is some basic doctrine. For example: Jesus’ divinity. Is that negotiable?

I affirm in the book that I am completely orthodox in all of my beliefs about Christ. I affirm all the ancient creeds.

But here’s where we have to face some deeper issues. The creeds teach us to affirm the deity of Christ. But then we have to say: What does it mean to live out the belief that Jesus was really the word of God incarnate? If we really believe that, then we’ll take very seriously what he said about how we treat our enemies. Instead, we often affirm the doctrine in our words — we can say "Lord, Lord" — but then we don’t actually do what he said.

The change I’m interested in is helping us flesh out what it means to affirm the ancient creeds and historic faith.

Must everything change?

Brian McLaren hope for the emerging church movement in 20 years …

"Well, my real hope is that in 20 years we won’t be talking about "the Emerging Church Movement." My hope is that the issues a number of us are raising will become accepted elements of a more mature and holistic Christianity that is shared by Christians in general. One dimension of that more mature Christianity would be, I hope, an assumption that diversity and creativity in forms of worship is a good thing, not a bad one, and that change is not only unavoidable and normal, but a wonderful opportunity for growth. That will mean moving on from the old assumption that there’s only one right method or liturgy or doctrinal statement or organizational structure, and moving into a realization that our mission and message can take many forms. To use Jesus’ image, we’ll recognize more and more that what counts is the new wine of the message we carry, not the shape of the wineskins we carry it in. The creative diversity of churches in Charlotte already demonstrates this vitality, I think. I’m really looking forward to meeting people from all of these churches — across styles and denominations — who are interested in seeing what the core message of Jesus has to say to the global crises that challenge both us and our children and grandchildren. I’ve found that when we address these issues, it’s not depressing at all. I think it’s actually exciting and motivating and unleashes hope and energy. I think people of faith in Charlotte have a big role to play in all this!"

This Changes Everything: An Interview with Brian McLaren

Quite an in depth interview responding to a review …

Dutch theologians from an emerging church perspective.

A good reminder on context …

There is one crucial remark on Kuyper, Schilder and neocalvism in general: For me, living in the Dutch culture and history, a reading of Kuyper and Schilder is very different compared someone non-Dutch. I recently had a conversation with US based reformed theologian on Schilder. He reads Schilder very different from me. Jamie reads a book form 1932 and interprets it. I read a book from 1932 and interpret it with a full history in my mind, including the outcome of Schilders work in church history. The same about Kuyper, he also played a more questionable role regarding “apartheid” in South Africa. In both cases the “darksides” are more present in my dutch context, both readings are valid in different ways.

Emerging in Germany

I very much agree with Chris on the second part on "a liberation into"…

While I am not comfortable with the line of reasoning that runs ‘Postmodernity, therefore…’, my own experience of things emergent has been of a liberation into a reforming and healthy theological adventure. So all I can say about this news is ‘Wonderful!’

The Importance of Definitions

From the man who had "The Emerging Church" as the title of his first book!

Thanks again to calvinaltworship for a glimpse into the UK scene.

Soul Space

Grace Church

Many thanks to calvinaltworship for making these videos available. Here’s the series with Johnny Baker.

What is Church?

A personal story of hope …

The Role of technology in the emergent church

How can we love God and our neighbor better?

I missed a segment on Leron talking about money. But here’s two clips related to fame. So we had quite a journey from Food to Fame during the intense day sessions. I’m glad to read Leron is safe back at Norway. I’d be looking forward to read his reflections soon.

After meeting Leron and listening to him I found reading The Delightful Terror of Reforming Theology with more interest and understanding. Maybe it’s because now I can imagine his voice when I read the words.

The matrix for theological inquiry was a special bonus because I found some of my own musings resonating with his framework. Plus, the Trinitarian accent throughout our personal conversations and underlying his talks and content was much needed, espeiclaly for someone like me who tends towards a Christ-centered approach and articulation. While I believe this is necessary in our context and is part of my own journey, it was good to let the Trinity take center stage.

I must confess … there were quite a number of light bulb moments during this talk!

It was quite refreshing to listen to a theologian start talking from the topic of Food … and of course, it’s never just about what we consume physically, but more of how in our relating with food, and relating with others during the consumption of food theological insights which are relevant for transformation

Here’s a little clip to give you a taste of last Friday’s morning session.