Sivin Kit's Garden

Second Thoughts on "Church"

I was interviewed this year by a "intelligent" young lady for her thesis. And she was kind enough to send me some of the quotations .. I'm not surprised by what I said, but I was a little challenged by myself especially the way I phrased it and after reading what's transcribed I'm brought back to what's important for me again.

"No one agrees with everything in the family but we're still family. So I find a family is a more useful model for church…than a company for example. If you don't like the company you will leave. Or you get fired. You know, reprimanded. With the family it's a different dynamic."

"a place where unchurched people can come. Or people who are not Christians can come to explore the faith…With no pressure for them to convert immediately they can take their time. And also a place for Christians to work out their faith in today's reality. … For people who need a place to grow, or were like me, who had questions, a place that questions will be taken seriously…A place where we would learn to follow Christ, and also invite others to follow in a safe environment."

"learning to accept people as they are, even though we don't approve of everything they think or do, and also believing that there is always room to change. They don't have to remain as they are. I think that would in some sense summarise what I think we would like to be in church…"

"as members of the church we'll see our self as someone who represents God in our own context. … And as a church, that consciously we will do things together to be the Jesus for others. … [And] in order to do that we need to connect with people who are needy, even the poor…we need to be with people who are not like us. … So our life is not just 'bout our career, consumption, I believe this is what being a Christian is mainly about."

"Christianity is not just about you believe in what I believe, but you also belong. We belong together. And we become…sometimes people belong first, before they believe. There are people in my church who are not Christians, yet. They take their time, they belong with us, they're part of our family. The day they want to believe, is up to them. But we will encourage them. And all of us are on the journey of becoming. So then everyone is equal, no one is better than the other person."

“If church is defined as people then…I wouldn't leave church. But church as an organisation I'm not too sure. But…I also believe in the renewal of an organisation. 'Cause I think that's part of Christian faith, the Gospel…We redeem even the hopeless situation”

無力

The Community of the Word

I'm always drawn to books on ecclesiology ... I think it's because it's become part and parcel of my life and ministry as well as my thinking process (informally in conversations and formally in my MTheol Program) - so when this gem arrived in SUFES bookstore I grabbed it.

So far I've only managed to read three chapters randomly - I'll quote some highlights for me and try to say something from my side :-):

Chap 1: THE CHURCH IN EVANGELICAL THEOLOGIES, PAST AND FUTURE by D.G. Hart
"Theology is generally a better source for agenda setting than history" (p.23)
A good intuitive and intelligent work of theology could keep us from th paralysis of analysis? Theological vision is meant to be liberating and not suffocating, forward looking rather than nostalic rehash of the past. I do believe theology (when not restricted to the academic-I-can't-understand sense) at its best is meant for all. Personally, I'd love to see more pastors integrate it with their ongoing messy ministries so we won't get sucked in the nitty gritty and lose sight of the bigger picture.

"The fundamental difference between the old Protestants like Calvin and Luther and the new ones like Edwards and Hodge was whether the church was a subjective, invisible quality shared by the truly converted or an objective medium of grace outside of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation." (p. 25)
This is the first time I'm introduced to see this difference in this particular way.

"the phrase evangelical ecclesiology 'is an oxymoron, like 'an honest thief' or 'airline food'." (p. 25-26)
I giggled when I read this one!

"Protestanism in its very nature demands repudiaion of a high view of the church and its ministry as the means by which salvation proceeds ... does the church communicate or mediate grace through Word and Sacrament?" (p.37)

This maybe the reason why I see myself drawn to the study of church it's importance because a big chunk of my initial Christian walk had a very LOW view of the church and often I confess it was just me and Jesus - that's it. When actually it was so supposed to be that's the start and not that's it!

"Evangelical piety is inherently suspicious of the church as a medium of salvation. ... evangelical forms of devotion have so stressed the direct work of te Holy Spirit of the believer that Christians' embodied existence seldom becomes a factor in understanding the process of salvation." (p. 39)

I do recall and still see much emphasis on "personal devotions" often disconnected with a more "embodied" and "corporate" dimension. I think the moment of kind of "got it" (not as possession or arrival but a lightbulb moment!) I found myself free from being entangled with self-inflicted "desert moments" and open to the wider work of the Spirit where I may not expect it. For example, Holy Communion now means so much more than just a ritual but truly a place to pause and encounter Jesus afresh and in fact to be "filled with the Holy Spirit." I used to try too hard to pray for an hour in tongues to access the work of the Spirit. Now I'm learning to surrender more.

Chap 3: PRACTICING CHURCH: Evangelical ecclesiologies at the end of modernity by Jonathan R. Wilson
"Both the best and worst of evangelical ecclesiology are rooted in the passionate evangelical commitment to mission. This engenders flexibiity that contributes significantly to the accusation that evangelicals do not have an ecclesiology. We do -- but our ecclesiology is so flexible that it is difficult at times to identify an effective one." (p. 71)
I see much of that flexibility expressed through the parachurch structures I'm in touch with especially in student ministry. Glimpses of this here and there in local churches before it becomes institutionalized or corporatized (which happens very quickly it seems). Getting to know the Roman Catholics has provided a useful mirror for self-understanding the past years ... especially in the area of "flexibility."

"... when ecclesiology has been entirely abandoned in favor of a mission. By this I mean that no critical reflection is taking place on the mission and its attainment. ... the life of the church has no implicit or explicit roots in the triune God. At this point the church easily and inevitably becomes instrumental to something other than that mission give by God." (p. 71)
I see this all over the place ... lots of resolve, loads of resolutions ... and yet lost our roots? Repentance is in order ...

"... the evangelical church needs to maintain a missional ecclesiology with its commitment to mission, and concomitant flesxibility while also remaining faithful to our commission. The best way to describe this and equip ourselves for faithful flexibility is to add to our missional ecclesiology an improvisational dimension. When evangelical ecclesiology is improvisational it enables the church to fulfill its mission in changing circumstances."(p.71)
as a non-classically trained (in fact unproperly trained) guitar player I can appreciate this image of "improvisation". I think it's great guiding metaphor for theology as well as methodology.

"... the ecclesiology of Brian McLaren is a still-developing attempt at improvisation. ... To continue with the imagery drawn from jazz, McLaren's session in the studio has developed some promising possibilities, but more rehearsal is needed. Mclaren's ecclesiology is a work in progress. In a word, it is ... well, emerging." (p. 72)
Yup ... the author has got this one right ...

Chap 6: THE CHURCH AS MISSIONAL COMMUNITY by Darrel Guder
"The term missional is an attempt to move the discussion beyond too narrow definitions of mission as merely one among the various programs of the church, and to find ways to think about the church's calling and practice today in the light of the fact of the multicultural global church."(p. 116)
I've said it more than once ... it's a great term .. open to abuse like all terms but very helpful in just opening up my mind.

"The church that Jesus intended, ... is missional by its very nature. ... the purpose of the apostolic mission: to found missional communities to continue the witness that had brought them into being. ... Thus, the Scriptures' collective purpose, we contend, was the continuing formation of already missional communities for faithful and obedient witness. ... Defining missional in such a way has broad implications for the entire theological task, starting with ecclesiology but not stopping there" (pp. 116-117)

Abstract or more philosophical theology perhaps has its place in the bigger picture but I see for the overall purpose and movement of the church - the missional lens has more potential in connected those often disconnected with each other structurally - e.g. seminary, local churches, parachurches, networks, etc. while at the same time providing theological resources and frameworks to integrate theology, spiritual formation and visible practices.

"We are heirs of both human reductionisms and of divinely empowered resistance to such disobedience." One of the pressing requirements for the development of a missional ecclesiology today is the task of learning how to read and interpret our history dialectically." (p. 120)
A challenge I see after serving as a pastor the last 8 years is from young to old - to start even appreciating history .. and then learning to interpret it. So, very often I find myself telling stories or giving short historical backgrounds before sharing a "quote" (just to model that).

"Since Western ecclesiology did not operate under the fundamental principle that the church is called, gathered, formed and sent to be God's witnesses in the world, we did not initially form churches with that sense of missional vocation. the question of missional calling was really forced upon the emerging global church by the reality of being minority churches in completely non-Christian settings, and illumined by their own interaction with Scripture as translations into vernacular languages made this possible." (p. 123)
It's nice to hear this self-critique from a western theologian. I hope we in Asia won't have to follow unnecessary dead ends and then get knocked to our senses. It will happen ... but I hope we'll harness our energies now on what it means to be called, gathered, formed and sent!

"Who is the church of Jesus Christ and what is it for?" (p. 124)
sounds like a simple question ... PAUSE first then SLOWLY answer.

"Christian witness is corporate in order that it can also be individual and personal. God calls people into discipleship, formation by Jesus, in order to send it out as an apostolic community, so that each of its members can be an apostolic witness with that flame of the Spirit ignited on every head." (p. 125)

"The ancient greeting that ended the liturgy. 'Ite missa est' must be understoof not merely as "Go, you are dismissed," but rather, "Go you are sent." "(p.126)
everytime, I give the Benediction or give words of dismissal during the Holy Communion or close in prayer , etc. I consciously and intentionally think this, feel this, and pay attention whether I will this ... beign dismissed is just "bye!" but being sent not that's totally different posture and direction!

"The purpose of God's mission is ultimately the acknowledgement and enjoyment of the glory of God; it happens as grace extends to more and more people; the evidence of that spread is growing thanksgiving to God which displays before the world the loving character and purposes of our God. It is the church to an ever-growing understanding of who it is and what it is for." (p.128)
So often what is marks our mission is a display of pressure (or even panic at times) .. evangelism as sales pitch has "totally stolen" the joy of many when it comes to being part of the mission. But I love the words "grace extends to more ..." That's what it's supposed to be ...

Random Thoughts while she sleeps

It's always nice when Elysia has a good sleep :-) and when she's awake she can put on those cool shades again.

I was pretty amused and somewhat intrigued to land up in some one's dream

I felt though as usual less than perfect we had a fruitful Emergent Malaysia Open Meeting yesterday. I enjoyed reading how another person felt about the meeting and what he got out of it here.

It's interesting how EMO seems to becoming a "label" when I originally just wanted a catchy way to say "Emergent Malaysia Open" Meeting ... thus EMO meeting .. :-) I told Alwyn perhaps it could also stand for Emergent Malaysia Oddballs!

It was good to catch up a little with Tom from Covenant Players who performed with Phil at our church worship gathering today. The last time we met was 4 years ago... he's travelled all over the place, I've done so mentally i think!

Hope to catch some breath before I head off to the National Conference 2005 organized by the FES. Looking forward to see familiar faces and get to know new ones. I hear there'll be quite a big group for my 1 and half hour workshop A9 - "Passionate Pursuit: getting passionate with God. pitfalls and stepping stones." Check out their brochure (familiar colours huh?)!

Will be interesting to meet another contractor for the toilet renovations for the church premises tomorrow and yes ... a replacement session for two couples planning to get married. Then on Tuesday, Bishop called for a last minute meeting with the pastors in the morning :-P

I'm craving for chips again ...

Random Links 74

Understanding Biblical Urgency: Debunking Left–Behind Theology
It's not just about our end time view's it's about how we see the Bible ... "I believe that scripture does come to life in our world and in our lives — but not in a series of scripted disasters and wars. The Bible comes to life most of all in life–giving experiences of hope, healing, and transformation. We find the message of the Bible and Jesus’ second coming for today not by drawing detailed correlations between wars in the Middle East and biblical prophecies in Daniel or Revelation, but by opening our eyes to see God’s love in the daily events of our lives. We need to learn to see and describe our experiences of God with greater urgency — our "Aha" moments of seeing God’s passionate love for the world, seeing the Bible coming to life in day-to-day experiences."

The Postcolonial Biblical Reader
Interested but too expensive-lah... :-(

Cultivating the Soul
Good Bibliofile to get linked to other works

Imagining Church
Great questions ... simple without being simplistic

Lecture delivered by the Archbishop of Canterbury at the Islamic University, Islamabad
I thought the venue as well as the content was noteworthy (Thanks to Jason Clark).

The Oriental Hearts and Mind Study Institute (OHMSI)
This is a is a network of individuals electronically linked to reflect, share, and exchange thoughts on core issues of mutual interest in the public space of Malaysian life (Thanks Kong Beng for the link!).

EMo Meeting ... Crossroads ...6 Hats

*Updated (especially Kia Meng's section to reflect his statements and feedback from the floor) and check out a nice youngest (?) perspective from Doulos*

Thanks to Alwyn for inspiring me to revisit de Bono's Six Thinking Hats to try to capture a pretty good emergent Malaysia open (eMo) meeting.

(covers facts, figures, information needs and gaps)

Thanks to Pastor Raj from CLGC for the usage of Crossroads Community centre at SS2, PJ.

There were 17 of us, from 8 different churches. 4 ladies and the rest gentlemen :-) 3 Pastors, 1 Seminarian, 1 Future-emerging-on-the-way church planter(?)

Basic flow of the meeting was as following:
- I welcomed everyone & we went round introducing ourselves ... sorting chairs here and there to include those who came later :-)
- I scribbled a basic "agenda" that would keep us along the same track ... everyone said ok ...
- Then with a smile I shared a little bit about how Emergent Malaysia fumbled into being, and what's been going on thus far. I went on then highlighting what hooked me into the "conversation" - "Emergent is a growing generative friendship among missional Christian leaders seeking to love our world in the Spirit of Jesus Christ."

The topic for the morning was "Emerging Concerns & Possible Solutions in Malaysian Christianity" (which I mentioned was kind of inspired by an upcoming Dialogue with Prof. Hans Kung organized by the Council of Churches Malaysia)

Then I went on and shared my report from my participation in the recent 7th National Christian Conference organized by the Christian Federation of Malaysia with the theme "National Integration and Unity".

The main plenary sessions I mentioned were ...
(1) Harmonous Co-existence in Religious Pluralism.
- Interesting to note how some see improvement in co-existence but an interesting counter reaction is that though on surface it may be so but on the grass root level it may not be.
- I shared how I left the session feeling how "not informed" I am and overwhelmed with the information and urgency due to my ignorance as a pastor and as a Christian.
- When a respondent talked about the need for us to speak up and speak up wisely and intelligently REALLY struck me.

(2) Our Journey toward National Integration.
- the phrase "social contract" stood out through out the session for me and what I further was drawn to was how our mindset has changed or have been "conditioned" without even realising it.
- This session made me want to read the Constitution of Malaysia and ask why some amendments were made (an extra question was .. how are we involved or not involved in the process?).

(3) Sustaining and Enhancing Integration through strategies of change.
- the question of what does partnership means was crucial and where are the areas we may have neglected as a church is striking.
- I was drawn especially to the challenge to create space for discussion on fundamental issues.
- of course, "commitment" and "counter-cultural" are still ringing in my head.

some questions and comments emerged after I shared.
- ‘being committed to the country as a church” – what does this mean?
- “our church today is spending too much time within 4 walls, a little time with family, no time with society to build the country…”
- is there a danger of paralysis of analysis…?
- Some words and phrases that cropped up were "heart of God for kingdom", "ministry of total person", "holism demands focus on social justice", "too much energy spent on prayer, overseas speakers, events organized around personality – what about coming together for sake of nation?" "imagination", ‘organic’… "butterfly-effect" ...

Next Alwyn who needed to stand rather than sit to speak shared on his take on the date with the NECF Research Commission some of us were part of.

He mentioned ...
- perhaps it's not very helpful to be overtly focus on distinctives. Should look at how to help the Church.
- does Emergent caters for a particular segment of youth who are “doubtful” of slogans, and “definite” answers?
- he took note of one of those present admitting perhaps the older generation failed to mentor the younger ones …. and yet he was glad that younger people are thinking through such issues and thus challenged the “older” generation to take up leadership.

Feedback from the floor was ...
- Continue to engage with NECF. God given opportunities let's respond.
- the impression of people in NECF Research Commission are quite different from people in the Prayer Commission.
- People might think that Emergent has a unified theology. But that is inaccurate. Probably, methodology is common. (Check out Scot McKnight’s articles)
- Why did NECF invite us? Out of interest to find out. Not so much out of concern of heresy.
- Continue to believe that Emergent has a role to play in Christianity in M’sia. We must BELIEVE it and take ownership

Kia Meng then shared while sitting with his notebook on his lap. He was surprised by the circle seating arrangement of the "date" and the informal atmosphere. He then went on sharing his reflection then merely reporting ...

o are Youth today shallow? Is those conversing in Emergent an anomaly? [but NECF Research Comm is also an anomaly.] Pastors seem to be more concerned on methods & programmes. Emergent and NECF Res Comm shd look for “common enemy”
o Capitalism/consumerism is a likely enemy…. Hence, lack of time…
o 80-90% of our lives are determined by the economic climate. The kind of Gospel that we preached is det by the current economic climate. Are we willing to destabilize the “wealth status quo”?
o Ellul: Truth in the bible held in tension. God’s sovereignty – Man’s responsibilities.
o Emergent more comfortable with ambiguities
o We need to bring in sociology, psychology & other social sciences. But not to supercede theology.
o Current marketplace forum ASSUMES that everyone wants to be a particular breed of Christian. But how about those who prefer a more altenative view?
o Everything about society is always about techniques/means. Less about the goal.
- felt that his generation is more aware of our limitation to know Objective Truth. Less sanguine about KNOWING the Final Truth We may feel that truth can be oppressive.
§ we must show that Truth (Jesus) is loving, personal etc etc. Embodiment of truth
§ Most mega churches are inculcating a self-interested experiential spirituality (narcissistic) amongst the youth.
§ Common dissatisfaction with modernity (autonomous self as the final judge of truth), consumerism etc.
§ How do we move forward?
· If ppl see truth as oppressive, how do we present the Gospel as freedom?
- Don’t assume older generation already knows the age-old questions & answers.

Feedback from the Floor ...
§ Probably we must show that Emergent is more than style; but the key is content
- When The Normal Christian Life (Watchman Nee) was published: not enough people practised it, hence it was perceived as abnormal.
- Emergent did not come with an agenda. Not to sell anything. We are journeying together.

After that we talked about a 3 in 1 party in January 14 Saturday .. post-Christmas, New Year and Pre-Chinese New year thus 3 in 1!

We broke into two groups with one for pastors and the other for what we called "the rest of the world" (lay leaders). We were supposed to email our discoveries to the yahoogroup.

Some lingered in duets or triads.

Usually the "lingering" conversations are very valuable and suprising.

After that some of us "sold out" and went to the Burger King next door for lunch and continued until around 3pm.

(covers intuition, feelings and emotions)
I felt happy that we had some new people today. and there were some fun bits here and there ... like an imaginary "bell" as a jargon buster for some of us when we ramble with words (we assume people know). Another "bell" to remind us this is a safe place .. so say what you need to honestly.

I was moved to hear of stories on sacrifice and commitment and risk especially before the meeting officially started.

I felt genuine acceptance of people and some humour to help us hear less comfortable remarks. "Ting" this is a safe place!

There was a sense that ideas can be experimented. Complaints are ok-lah! Frustration with abuse of the past and how our histories affected us were evident.

I mentioned if we called ourselves "Rumah Goreng Pisang" whether we would be noticed.... we all laughed!

(covers judgment and caution)
- we need to be cautious of expecting more on others than ourselves and begin working on baby steps in our own spheres of influence.
- we need to be watchful of not "negating" the good even in models or approaches we are no longer comfortable with or see no relevance
- there may be a lack of confidence at times and a sense of so what can we do?
- we lacked time for the small groups to REALLY work .. time was a factor.

(covers the logical positive)
I think having some guide or "agenda" was good ... we covered quite a wide range of issues.

The "selling out" lunch was good for further more informal conversations.

(covers creativity, alternatives, proposals, what is interesting, provocations and changes.)
- how about a "agenda-less" meeting?
- what about a safe place for "pastors?
- the "jargon buster" was REALLY a great idea.
- Keeping a "head, heart, hands" paradigm will make us work on areas we may neglecy.

(covers the overview or process)
Building on current events we participated allowed for some immediacy and relevance for the conversation. Furthermore these were close to heart Malaysan issues. As always, I'm uncertain whether we "lost" the 1st time newcomers (or those who've just stumbled in) and perhaps will need to consider how they can be more "included". and yet, perhaps seeing some continuity from one meeting to another is important to build momentum and interest. Part of the effort to quickly jot down these notes today on the blog is to put things down while it's fresh not only in my thinking but also in the feeling! And many thanks to Jade and Alwyn for keeping pretty good notes on which I could use the 6 hats thinking tool to help to reflect on the meeting.

A Date with NECF Research Commission

*Updated: I respaced the paragraphs after realising how unpleasing to the eyes they are - the medium is the message*

Thanks to Alwyn for being the faster one to post his thoughts here on NECF-EMO Chat and David-hedonese sharing his feelings on That's Not 'Generous'...

I'll start by trying to work on a Disclaimer :-) first:

Disclaimer: The views on sivinkit.net do not represent the opinions or positions of Bangsar Lutheran Church, the Lutheran Church in Malaysia & Singapore or Emergent Malaysia. The views represented here are solely the personal views of the author. Please contact me via email at sivinkit@gmail.com if you have any problems with any of the content.

Now that wasnt too hard ...

And I shall begin with a story ...
Actually, I wanted to go and play frisbee during a break at the recent NECF Youth Workers Consultation 2005 but then I landed up in "conversation" with Siew Foong from the NECF Research Commission and we had a fruitful discussion on a wide variety of issues ranging from Brian Mclaren to the state of pastors in Malaysia, etc.

The next thing leads to the leads (in terms of emails) and we're sitting with the commission members for a nice cup of coffee having a in my opinion a stimulating dialogue (by the way I enjoyed the lunch conversations too where we talked about the latest craze on apostles - I'll leave that for another day).

Anyway, prior to the event on 16 November 2005, Saturday morning. I asked for some questions to spur the mind to focus a bit more ... and the following came back under the theme ""Church and Christian Living in the Postmodern World"":

"
1. What does it mean to be an authentic Christian/church?
2. What is the true role of self? Does right living means denial of self?
3. Is the Church being irrelevant?
4. should Christian conviction (belief) be secondary to compassion?
5. Does current theology restrict rather than free?

Came across the phrase 'postmodern Christian,' it may be referring to Christian living in the postmodern era, or Christian with postmodern ideas or something else, regardless what are the opportunities for evangelism and provisions for authentic Christian living in these pomo ideas? "

To start with we had some prelimary introductions (there were Alwyn, Kia Meng, Yew Khuen- the non-blogger- and myself from Emergent Malaysia - a informal network .. a young friend who claims to be a modernist came along to add spice!) and then trying to share how we landed up (or fumbled into) being called Emergent Malaysia. :-)

The facilitator felt we were spending a little too much time on "us" rather than what we thought and what were our concerns then we went into loads of free flow discussions revolving somewhat to the questions above.

I actually did a Mindmap of ideas but didn't manage to go through the, systematically as the conversations, back and forth clarifications and responsed were very dynamic. I think a lot centred on question 3 as we also tried to warp our minds around another question is how we viewed "Malaysian evangelicalism"?

Here are some areas and comments that surfaced in no particular order: (Someone/Another one = NECF commission or observer, one of us = take your guess who?, I = definateoly me .. I own up!) :

- Someone said that we didn't come with an agenda to sell anything or to provide solutions but just to share what's on our mind and how we are dealing with it. This is absolutely *grin* true ...
- Another one encouraged us by saying it's good to see younger folk wreslting with issues about being and doing church in our generation.
- One of us shared how the "gospel" he was introduced to left him dry and beign shown a wider vision of the "Gospel" (here names like NT Wright, and Jacques Ellul, and René Girard came in)
- someone noticed the words like "conversation", "missional", "praxis", "story" etc. that keep popping up and asked how does that relate to where we are and what we're doing.

- one of us talked about the "mode" of discourse and how we tend to favor a more "conversational" approach as opposed to a more top down lecture style and how that reflects the predisposition to listen first ...
- I was suprised when the name Pannenberg came into the discussion :-) Brian McLaren was mentioned less than 4 times, Dallas Willardat least once :-) Stanley Grenz a couple of times, Kevin Vanhoozer,/a> and Michael Horton definately at least once. Sneaked in Robert Jenson's name at the end when we are asked to widen our reading *grin* I think I mentioned Luther and Lesslie Newbigin here and there (maybe a little too much Luther from me until I had to do the Benediction!)

- At some points I felt that there were obvious differences in the way we view how we should look at the state of the Malaysian church especially when it related to the emerging younger generation. There was a sense of "us vs. them" where as I would have prefered (1) a more "we" approach (2) seeing the wider picture of our existing church cultures - from leaders to families, etc.
- I also shared my frustration with the lack of integration of theology, spirituality and ministry from the perspective of a pastor ... too much "talk" tends towards mere discussions on methodology.

- Someone asked whether the way we are questioning the status quo of popular youth ministry methods is abnormal and the majority actually don't even ask these questions.
- one of us shared .. at times we do feel alone .. but the there seem to be others who are on the same journey .. perhaps we are a minority (no stats to show for this one .. just a gut feeling)
- Someone gave affirmation that at least there are some among us who are "thinking" and "wrestling" with issues in a more reflective manner - and the Agora was mentioned side by side with Emergent Malaysia in the same sentance :-) .

- someone mentioned we shouldn't throw away the old language ... one of us replied we are not ...
- one of us talked about the need for propositions and not denying it but seek to see and present how the story is encoded in the proposition.
- one of us talked about theological boundaries and then the centred set and bounded set terminology cropped in a little.
- one of us talked about how the "gospel" could be misused to oppress ..
- Someone mentioned the threats we are facing increasingly these days and talked about urgency.

- one of us :-) tried to bringout the difference between a sentence and proposition.
- Someone highlighted the effects of modernity and how he's come through bruised and tired of modernity.
- one of us mentioned the consumerism we see in the church today.
- Someone clarified that ours is a cultural critic.
- I shared how as a pastor I operate with a variety of languages ... and different levels of discussion and even though I enjoy times like this where stimulating back and forth conversations which as more than one syllable words come up .. most of the time while being aware of this I talk more "normally" in a church setting. I think I mention Francis Schaeffer somewhere here.

- we mentioned postmodernity in passing here and there but interestingly and thankfully (IMHO) it wasn't the main thing in our discussion.
- there was talk about the Gospel being embodied, there was also talk on how we "perform" the Gospel, there was mention of the wider catergory of "witness" in relation to "evangellsm"
- one of us shared on how many sermons in the pulpit has little relevance to the week from Monday to Saturday. Or often being good at work is merely a means to hook others to Jesus by having a change to "evangelize"
- Someone mentioned I may not be able to find a job in a megachurch (and that was a compliment!) hehehe
- There's lots more ... I'm getting a little tired typing.

Overall, i felt it was a good meeting ... and there were very encouraging affirmations from all quarters. The facilitator congratulated the research commission for their best behaviour (I wonder why?). As for me, I think those of us who so called represented "emergent malaysia" did well in honestly sharing our thoughts.

It was a nice date... there was laughter, some heightened excitement here and ther, some flatter moments where patience was required, there was a genuine effort to listen and understand, some good moments where thoughts and concerns connected, other times we flew by each other ... after being in a variety of settings in my personal experience this was one of the more memorable ones I've been part of.

after that, a decent lunch ... and some extra overflow of conversations (as usual) nice to catch up with old friends and new.

Nothing fancy ... I think we might have some "dates" in future maybe in different forms and different ways.

Another "eMo" Meeting ...TOMORROW!

as you can see we're very much trying to get organized *grin*

Date: Saturday 26 November 2005
Time: 10am-12pm
Venue: 43 Meazzanine Floor SS2/64 47300 P.J
(It is in SS2. Same row as Salvation and Evangel. Just one floor up from the
England Optical outlet. )
For those who are not sure how to go call me at 013-3507246

Topic: Emerging Concerns & Possible Solutions in Malaysian Christianity
(our focus is to pay attention a little bit more on what's happenign in our country socio-political-economic wise... and how Christians are responding at different levels - of course our focus will be back on the personal and local church level for starters)

This topic will be based on some reports from
- simple report on the recent CFM conference (Sivin)
- some interaction between some of us with the NECF Research commission (Kia Meng & Alwyn)

that would be at least 60minutes worth of stuff to be introduced to. and then we'll have smaller group discussions. and have some practical ideas sharing that would take another 45minutes then eat!.

Random Thoughts During online LiFE Chat!

I love mash potatos .. I had potatos for lunch, potatos for dinner (but not mash lah!) in the Chinese style with pork! awesome!

we are talking about the Book of Habakkuk (for the text check Habakkuk 1 TNIV (Today's New International Version)

Some interesting insights popping up ... like (all from different ppl):
" ... the book ends with a glimmer of hope. Hope. yea, that's what comforts me. owh, and also for the fact that really, it is okay to question somethings.

... so in the light of all this. and Habakkuk.- he sees things he thinks are not right - all the injustice, he complains "Lord, don't you see?" and then God says, "don't worry, I have it all under control - in my own timing - don't you worry. i have bigger plans" and then after that Habakkuk learns to accept God for Him. Not to try and think how God should be, but acknowledging God's greatness, and his bigger plan. in practical ways -yea, what can we learn? maybe just not to judge so much? maybe to be more aware that God knows? "
(still on going)

Still got much to do ... had a good time reflecting on Adult faith formation today ...still more to go. thought a lot about my own formation.

again and again ... we are confronted with the "pains" of the other ..

as well as some "joys".

I'm very proud of those who organized and helped in this First Project Fireflies Camp!

Emergent snack!

Movable Theoblogical: AuthenticChurch Archives
"WE ARE CULTURAL ADDICTS AND WE CANNOT BREAK THIS ADDICTION ALONE" .. not strictly emergent but ... I need to read these posts .. keeps important things in perspective!

something different thanks to Prodigal Kiwi(s) Blog

How Can We Sing the Lord’s Song in a Strange Land?
"There are two other main options for Christianity faced with the secularising, pluralising challenges of late modernity. These are deductive and reductive options. Deductive options tend to be the conservative ones, turning to tradition and scripture and away from today’s cultural agenda, while reductive options are the more liberal ones, trimming the content and expression of faith in fidelity to today’s culture"

The Emerging Church: Mature, Mystical and Militant
"Today’s forms of these deductive and reductive approaches are evident in the (equally) post-modern options of fundamentalism (everything is deduced from a certain reading of scripture) and thoroughgoing liberalism (everything is reduced to fit culturally-subservient needs and expectations of the moment). Beyond fundamentalism and liberalism, however, lies a third way that Berger called inductive, involving a return to the roots of religious conviction, reclaiming the ancient core of Christian tradition in critical conversation with present-day realities—restoring, re-invigorating, re-inventing."

Liturgy: Secret Weapon of the Emerging Church
"If the Church’s aim is to establish a Christian world-view in the face of post-Christian culture, the resources provided by this universal cultural fact of ritual transformation and symbolic reinforcement should not be dismissed. Liturgy as a drama of world-making serves as a carrier of this ‘new creation’, where a congregation tells again the story of God’s universal purposes made concrete and personal in Jesus, liberating the worshipper and empowering an embodiment of that vision as the assembly departs ‘to love and serve the Lord’."

Best Book on the Emerging Church
Let's see which Malaysian bookstore is the fastest to bring this in ... on your mark - get set - GO!

Facing Opposition: An Open Letter to Emergent Christians
It's been a while since I got an hand written letter ... I havent written an Open letter before ... perhaps I should (on other matters of course!)

Light a Candle

(click on candle)

This act of prayer became a good way to end the day!
(Thanks Maggi for the Link)

Random Links 73

Is Religion Good for You?
Thanks Yew Khuen for this link .. DB this is to support you for work-life balance! This quote is paradoxically interesting: "attending religious services weekly, rather than not at all, has the same effect on individuals' reported happiness as moving from the bottom to the top quartile of the income distribution.

However, the same factors that determine religious attendance may also determine these outcomes; for example, it may be that happier people go to church, not that going to church makes you happier. "

Four Principles of Discernment
Thanks Latino Liz for another relevant reminder! Many people miss point number 3.

Corruption Is A Sin
ah .. Bob returns from an overseas trip with a bite : "Malaysiakini reports that representatives from the six major faith groups in the nation; Islam, Hinduism, Christianity, Buddhism and Sikhism; have finally come to a joint conclusion that corruption is a sin!

Duh!!?? Did it have to take that long for them to figure it out?"

Birthing a Church: Exploring a Feminine Model of Church Planting
Now this is something refreshing!

Solitude in the Morning

{PAUSE}
I'm using Sacred Gateway as a guide. Some atmospheric music is at the background

as I'm waking up ... Gareth is still asleep ... I'm centering before a whole day of activity.

I can foresee lots of "new" and "old" noises that will flood me soon (in the next hour or so) This time is precious.

I want to listen to God FIRST ... before anything else. It's not whether it's an option. It's become a necessity for my sanity.

{PONDER}
I'm more at peace today. Had some decent sleep yesterday. A good leadership meeting for the church. A fine welcome home from Gareth which brightened my evening further :-)

Some reoccuring "themes" came up last night ... needing a change of dealing with them since it's reoccuring! Realism is one thing ... a mature Christ-like mindset needs to reign more supreme. Musn't lose sight of the workings of the Spirit while dwelling on the sinfulness of humans.

Luke 21:5-11
"adorned with beautiful stones and gifts dedicated to God" ... "all will be thrown down."
How often we miss the whole point in the midst of constructing or preserving what we deem to be good in our lifetime? or more precisely how often we miss the person - the Creator, Redeemer and Life-giver - God in our pursuits even so called noble ones.

Some of my own "ideas" of life, God and ministry fall in those catergories as well. Quite a few have been thrown down. A big chunk of expectations as well ... even some relationships. All these experiences make me pause before overplacing my security in them ... it's just too easy to miss God in all this. It's too easy to miss Jesus! It's too easy to follow "false messiahs" promising the world but in actual fact leading us astray and away from the way of Jesus.

I'm still in this world, I'm still working in the midst of these floating ideas, expectations, achievements, relationships. At times, a moment of grace and there's a connection with the reign of God at work. For those, I offer thanks. But the warnings of placing too much "sense of security" in anything other than God is a needed one. Only then I'm free to work, to live, to relate without being entangled by "false messiahs" or "insecure temples".

perhaps now, I can focus and construct and preserve what REALLY matters ... Lord have mercy. Help me .. Spirit. Jesus ...

{Practice}
- Time pick up a phone and call Mr. K and reconnect.
- Follow up on a person in Hospital.
- participate in a LiFe Group tonight and discern God's movement
- Keep the above in mind while scheduling the lay leaders and pastors training program for 2006
- Have a good breakfast conversation with Gareth when he wakes up :-)
- Start doing some stuff I've delayed while being distracted by administrative matters :-P

Amen.

Random Links 72

The Seven Deadly Sins of Blogging
ok .. a time of self-examination here :-)

BlogsMalaysia
Looks interesting ... and plugs me into wider world of Malaysian blogs.

MCA online
as a Chinese in Malaysia I'm wondering what's on their mind ... and especially considering their connections to the media :-P

UMNO online
a conversation with a fellow pastor friend sparked me to check this out!

Lent Daily Readings, Year 2 (2006)
I'm suppose to start thinking about writing ASAP .. I love the season of Lent.

Which Peanuts Character are You?

You are Woodstock!


Which Peanuts Character are You?
brought to you by Quizilla

*this was fun!*

Politically Correct Lord's Prayer

"Our (mis)Concept of Patriarchal Authority, who, it can be said, inhabits the metaphysical sphere, privileged be your signifier.

May your social structure achieve dominance.

May the enactment of your desire be manifested throughout the physical-metaphysical dichotomy.

Empower us this day with the means of material production,
And refuse to enforce sanctions against our behavior which some see as subversions of a moral perspective, just as we refuse to marginalize the moral perspectives of others who have exerted their individuality.

Don't lead us into situation that some would (mis)understand as detrimental to the full expression of our humanness, but liberate us from the concept of "evil."

For yours is the hegemony, and the dominance, and perceived mystification within the entire continuum of the Western concept of linear time."~ St Matthew-in-the-City Anglican Church Auckland, Aotearoa New Zealand (Thanks Bob Calton for this)

Constitution of Malaysia

In a sudden moment of "i don't now what happened!" ... I picked up the Constitution of Malaysia and read the first few pages while waiting at Borders bookstore before heading to pick Elysia for a doctors appointment.

perhaps it's because I've been asking myself lately what does it mean to be a Malaysian citizen who "loves" the country. And this practice of reading a most basic document will help me connect with the land where I'm living in!

From Article 4:
"(1) This Constitution is the supreme law of the Federation and any law passed after Merdeka Day which is inconsistent with this Constitution shall, to the extent of the inconsistency, be void."

From Article 11:
"(1) Every person has the right to profess and practice his religion and, subject to Clause (4), to propagate it.

(5) This Article does not authorize any act contrary to any general law relating to public order, public health or morality. "

I've been hearing these two Articles a lot the past years and it definately stood out for me ... and it's been on my mind since yesterday especially thinking about what led to the amendments in Article 11. And even as the words continue to ring in my mind, I'm thinking what part can I play or we could play to "construct" together with others --> a better home for our children where for them reaching out to "the other" who is unlike them has less barriers whether it's from without or within. This home we call Malaysia needs to be "better" for ALL!

May God bless Malaysia ... (how is this blessing seen and expressed through us?)

I Wanted to To Change The World

*It's such a great joy to see the life in these kids as they holds hands looking into the future! For some of us older folk :-) I guess we've seen stuff that often makes us feel more depressed or disappointed and for some of us we want to change the world ....much energy is put into where we could start (rather than being stuck) or persevere.. I see myself as one want so play my part in this process... so the following quote really grabbed me today!
(thanks Latino Liz)*

I Wanted to To Change The World
By Unknown Monk, 1100 A.D.

Now, as an old man, I realize the only thing I can change is myself, and suddenly I realize that if long ago I had changed myself, I could have made an impact on my family. My family and I could have made an impact on our town. Their impact could have changed the nation and I could indeed have changed the world."

Emergent Supper

Emerging Church/Theological Education Caucus Audio
Thanks to Adam Cleaveland for making this available ... I'm downloading away!

Loyal radicals
Great summary and notes. These words from Karen Ward struck me as she shares on how their congregation relates to the denomination as a whole --> “Emergent leaders in the ELCA talk about relating to our denomination as the mothership,” she said. “We emergent leaders are a dinghy brigade. We’re totally in relationship to the mothership, but we’ve jumped into the water,” not jumping ship but “going overboard to explore the missional culture.

“We’re loyal rebels. We like splashing around in the water but we also go on deck and report to the captain. We don’t want the ship to run aground. We see ourselves as scouts. And the mothership is beginning to take the reports from the field seriously.”"”

Martin Luther: Emerging?
Now let's take out the beer and celebrate!

Emerging Church and the Holy Spirit [1], [2], [3]
Kester's challenge is well taken ..."I want to propose that we need to radically re-imagine our language of the Spirit. It is unfortunate that the charismatic wing of the Church have hijacked the concept of the Spirit and taken it hostage to the power-evangelism agenda... It seems that one cannot talk about the gifts of the Spirit without it being taken as meaning healing, speaking in tongues, prophecy etc."

Holy Spirit in the Emerging Culture & Church
Good to follow a concrete response to the issue at hand ...

Emerging Church Critics (Updated)
Thanks to Andrew Jones for updating us with those who aren't too excited about stuff relating to "emerging" and more specifically "emergent".

Random Thoughts on Sunday evening

what a precious moment I have now - solitude and silence.

It's been an eventful week ... today's sharing at a Brethren assembly was my first :-) It was great to be part of the multi-sensory worship gathering John Yip and co designed for today. There were many moments where I found my hear settling down - or centering calmly after an activity full week.

It's been challenging for us this past week as both Gareth & Elysia require "substantial" amount of attention ... and of course, the majority cries out for "mummy"!

Soo-Inn was absolutely right when he told me how having two kids will demand a greater amount of energy then we had expected. Whenever I feel my hair dropping because of fatigue and sometimes frankly frustration ... somehow those words become a kind of encouragement in a strange way - it translates into - "it's ok hang in there!"

Nice to check out the Batman Begins DVD extras ... It's become one of my personal favorites especially this year.

I realise I'm not really a Pizza person ... well it's not that I realised it tonight. It's just reinforced. :-P

Looking forward to have some father and son time with Gareth tomorrow!

Hope to get back to more disciplined reading and reflection. I can also feel a strong pull to have some "extended" time for journaling which I'm missing because of the "adjustments" in time and responsibility.

I think after next week ... it will be another crazy and yet fruitful season of ministry so I'd really like treasure as many non-busy moments as much as possible.

There's quite a number of "unfinished" business as far as blogs, ministry, personal and family matters are concerned. I hope to start finishing or completing them (or in some cases star them) this week. I suppose typing all this in right now is one way of keeping myself in check!

Ah .. missed swiming this week :-P the exercise is even more needed in view of the demands on my body, mind and emotions ... etc!

It's still very quiet .. suddenly don't know how to react ...

for starters, i'm taking note of my breathing!

{PAUSE}

Blessing Not Burden

So often it's tempting to see our children as a burden to our personal self-fulfilment. But these two have been such a blessing!

Random Links 71

A Generous Orthodoxy Conference (audios)
a feast of Mp3s I downloaded

Taking a stand for marriage
"For me, the most important thing about a happy marriage is that husbands and wives be best friends — with no serious rival to that friendship." I agree, May Chin and I even included this emphasis in our vows!

10 Principles of Servant-Leadership
I REALLY hope this is not just going the phrase "servant leadership" isn't just going to be on my working paper for the lay leaders training program starting next year - but truly embodied in my own life.

The four practices of Open Space
Being open is great, we also want to do some work huh?

Growing God's Kingdom from the Harvest an interview with Neil Cole
saw the book at MPH 1 Utama ... read the interview first, the books is expensive!

Internet Evangelism for the 21st century (FREE WORKSHOPS ON GOOGLE VIDEO!)
I love the internet and especially when people are sharing for free.

Priest Idol
you must be joking ...!

Random Thoughts after Re-streamyx-ed

finally I got my line connected! ... well that's after ...

going to the TM point centre end of october to change to a new phoneline
then on the 31 October ... ask to transfer my streamyx line to the new phone number and line ... then waited for one week (ok it was a holiday season)... called the TM point PJ phone line for ages and no reply ... then managed to get a direct line ... and was put on hold a few times.. . then they said they'll call back but never did. Called 100 3 to 4 times to check ... nothing positive or no action ... apparently I found out yesterday after I went to Tm Point PJ again and this is the THIRD time - that my application was processed on November 8 - they even printed it to show me after I saw it on their monitor ... then they said it will be ok yesterday ... nothing happened ... then finally I got an email ... (earlier I sent one and it bounced!!!) .. I called 100 again (I don't know how many times I've done so already now *frown*) this time got to the technical department .. got some "reasons" why it's hard and how it's complex and so forth ... then the guy on the other line said it's "almost" complete .. my patience is more than wearing thin ... I'm bordering very close to cancelling my account (and they better give me a rebate or something!) ... so if it didn't work out this week .. they would have one less customer. In fact, they might still have me for now ... but they've lost my trust, respect, and confidence.

I really had to get the above out of my system .. please forgive me ... it was therapy!

I'm glad today I called the director for post-graduate study at the seminary ... the four modules for my M.Theol program are pretty settled in my mind. And my thesis focus is sharpening. I'm happier with the potential line up of module supervisors... and hope by next year I could have a thesis supervisor settled. I hope the Jesuit engagement is possible :-) for one of the modules.

It's been another hardworking week ... and yet I'm thankful for some space tonight and maybe a little bit more tomorrow.

I'm looking forward to "share" and be part of an innovative Brethren church worship service on Sunday ....not too sure what to expect ... :-) But I know some of the people there and they're a great blessing to me.

It will be an interesting weekend coming up ... apart from Cranium Wars between LiFe Groups, food and Fellowship on saturday at the Father's hOuse, I and a few others will be having coffee and some conversations with those connected with the NECF research commission and Sunday popping by the Centre for Independant Journalism with a young intelligent man (maybe another might follow?)

Looking forward for an online CG afterwards .. if possible!

Random Links 70

A Premarital Counseling Inventory (pdf)
Three couples are using this for discussion and prayer right now at the other room! :-) I think it's pretty good, simple and links to the Scriptures.

Does Electrocution Happen for a Reason?
I'll be reading Kyle Lake's reflection on Romans 8:28 tonight. I need perspective after reading the insentive link yesterday on his death.

Centre for Independant Journalism (Malaysia)
I might actually pop by one of their training sessions someday :-P

Beyond the Honeymoon: A Marriage Course For a Life-Long Journey
loads of good stuff here ... "Missional Marriage" now that's new to me!

Random Links 69

The Gospel acc. to John (Piper)
I read this because I know quite a few people impacted by Piper's life and writings.

Helm's Response
Interesting to follow the "debate" here .. the internet does provide a leveling ground for working ideas out (or at least for people like me to eavesdrop and also work things out in quiet)

GOD SENDS SHOCKING MESSAGE TO EMERGING CHURCH!
This is so sad ... and uncalled for from someone who claims to be biblically speaking. Bob Hyatt replies in writing out of anger is never good....

Random Thoughts at the LCMS HQ

Well... I liked this first photo I took before the Worship gathering started yesterday! After the worship gathering, a bunch of "boys" - including me had a great time jamming. The energy was great! I miss these moments and this was refreshing.

My off day Monday turned into a work day ... that's ok. I foresaw this. I'm glad the two meetings I had were fruitful. I sense there's a possibility of moving forward.

May Chin and I had a great evening yesterday with a young couple. It's great to see how Gareth interacted with the lovely lady amongst us. It's rare to see Gareth warm up so quickly with one who's considered a stranger. some people just have a "magic touch" with kids.

I'm also delighted to see how mature the couple are in handling their relationship. Not bad considering their age. :-) God's blessing be upon them.

surprisingly, I had some thoughts to focus my M.Theol program on Saturday when I was suposed to finalize my message for Sunday. I still managed to the message but it's strange how often when my mind needs to focus on item A, more ideas come for item B. :-)

I'm still waiting for my broadband line to get "reconnected" :-(

Someone said I'm fatter :-(

Hope to swim tonight :-) cut the fat?

I hope to pick up some focused reading again ... tonight or tomorrow.

Random Links 68

Introduction to Postcolonial Studies
Now the phrase "postcolonial" has been emerging on my lips and conversations ... time to check it out more "academically" :-)

Language
I'm using English on this blog ... and it isn't my mother tongue. That's ok ...

Ethnologue
An encyclopedic reference work cataloging all of the world’s 6,912 known living languages (Fascinating - just look at Peninsular Malaysia).

the Christian Year
It REALLY has made a difference in the way I view time.

Random Links 67

The Truth about Helen Keller
"It's time to move beyond the distorted and dangerous Helen Keller myth, repeated in picture book after picture book. It's time to stop lying to children and go beyond Keller's childhood drama and share the remarkable story of her adult life and work." .. wow!

Globalization: A Postcolonial Definition
Will read this before a nap!

Buddhist Pastor in a Christian Church
Reality of life in Malaysia ... oh I need to do MyKad too ..soon!

Marketing Narnia: Is the Church Being Used?
Hmm .. the "marketing" word ... I don't like being used.

The Lectionary
I love it!

Emergent Stirrings!

Ethnic Diversity Within the Church That Is Emerging
So this is not just "for white guys with two books under the arm and a budget to travel around to conferences. " :-) I've more than 2 books, and I don't have much of a budget to travel around (I'm usually dependent on sponsors!) Any, I like Rudy's piece partly because he put me on the list! ... BUt more so because I agree with him when he says ""Why did Rudy go and put me on this list?" They all fit the bill because they are discussing, or re-examining, ways of doing and being church in a manner that resonate with the broader emerging church conversation, even if some might not agree with the direction of particular theological discussions." So even though, I can't say there's an "emerging movement" (to use Prof. Scot's term) in Malaysia (I may be wrong) but I think there's are some "unemerged" conversations emerging :-)

Talkin’ with Tony Jones about Postmodern Ministry
I think the discussion on the word "Postmodern" is getting more refined but what's caught my attention was the little comment on seminary education, i.e. "Tony hopes that a new seminary education will emerge that will replace the Germanic research university model of education and the "theological encyclopedia" division of studies (biblical studies/systematic theology/church history/practical theology) that we now have. He also wants to see seminary education done at the local level—as students are doing ministry and immediately applying their education in the transformation of the world and the lives of the people to whom they minister." As one who's participating in a curriculum review at a local seminary as well as attempting to "catalize" or "midwife" my onw denominational lay leaders training programme .. these thoughts are relevant and resonate.

Scot McKnight on the Emerging Church
Bob does us a great service by providing a synopsis of Prof. Scot's insights. I'll pick out some glaring points for me .. with some mini feedback relating to Malaysia.
"... One of the reasons so many are frustrated with the Emerging Movement’s definition is found here: it is a movement concerned with praxis and not simply theology. If the older fashion was to define others by their theology, the Emerging Movement wants to be defined by its behavior. This is a dramatic challenge to the Church.

In Malaysia, I see a tension here ... I think there some good praxis already (e.g. there aren't too many fiery debates over doctrine because we're all busy doing ministry) and to compliment churches who are doing well in this area there's a need to strengthen the reflective part together

So, as EM reacts or responds to emphasize praxis in the USA for example, we might see a healthy convergence in the constructive efforts we are all seeking to head to!