Sivin Kit's Adventures

Archive for February, 2007

Dear Friends,

Thank you so much for making the time and space to join us for this conversation, We have received your registration and thought it would be good to send you a letter with some final details. You might want to print out this e-mail for your reference.

1. Registration will be opened from 8.00am on Saturday (3 March 2007) If you have pre-registered but have yet to pay the registration fee of RM 55.00, you can do so at the registration desk manned by Laurie Toong and her team.

If you are bringing friends who are not pre-registered, a registration fee of RM 65.00 is payable.

2. The map to the venue of the event, Christian Life Gospel Centre (CLGC), is reproduced below :

For your reference, here are some photos of the building where the venue is located :

Alternatively, you can also phone CLGC’s office at 03.7955.0084 for directions.

3. Accomodations near the venue can be found at :

* Petaling Jaya Hilton
Website (Phone : 03.7955.9122)

* Hotel Singgahsana PJ (Formerly NPC Hotel)
Website (Phone : 03.7956.2100)

* Shah Village Hotel
Website (Phone : 03.7956.9322)

* Lisa De Inn
Website (Phone : 03.7955.3636)

4. Lunch will be provided on Saturday (3 March 2007). There will be simple refreshments served during the breaks.

5. Session 3 on Discipleship is open to the public (refer to programme schedule below). Please feel free to invite friends. We will collect a special offering for our speaker Brian Mclaren to show our appreciation on this night.

6. The Sunday Worship Service is not part of the programme as some may need to be back at their home churches. However, all are welcome to join us in worship at CLGC at 10.30 am. The event will resume at 2.00 pm in the afternoon.

7. There will be a book counter set up by Glad Sounds, our sponsoring partner for this event.

8. Please feel free to go to the following links to get some more information and preliminary reading :

* emergentMalaysia
www.emergentmalaysia.org

* Sivin Kit’s Garden
Friends in Conversation

9. You are also welcome to join the lecture and interaction at Seminari Theoloji Malaysia (STM) in Seremban on Monday, 5 March 2007, at 10.00 am. This is event is free and open to all interested. More information about the lecture can be found at www.stm.edu.my.

Finalised Programme Schedule

Come with a relaxed mind and an open heart. We look forward to seeing you face to face and joining you in exploring where God is leading us in the future.

Feel free to contact me by e-mail (friends@emergentmalaysia.org) or by phone (013.3507.246) anytime if you have any further enquiries.

God bless.

Rev. Sivin Kit
on behalf of the organising team

Giggles and laughter …

Behind the scenes details …

in deep thought …

Another round of laughter … it’s good medicine.

everyone contributing to “make it so”

Prayer

Watchwords for Today are:
“Therefore we also will serve the Lord, for he is our God” – Joshua 24:18

“We, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually we are members one of another. We have gifts that differ according to the grace given to us.” – Romans 12:5-6

” When Ignatius Loyola was recovering after breaking his leg in battle, he used to enjoy the romances they gave him to read; but he found that their after-taste was empty and unsatisfying. When he read the Gospels, the after-taste was of solid food, something he could live on. He learned to discern the after-taste of experiences. That is the way the Holy Spirit can shape our lives. It means listening to our hearts to discover the path of God and of the Holy Spirit through us, and to recognise what blocks we place, consciously or unconsciously, to God’s work in us.” – Sacred Space

I confess the more I read some excellent blogs and reflections the more I feel inadequate. I think being an encourager is so much more less pressure than being an expert.

someone asked me why I like to do or coordinate projects like Nails and Thorns 2007 (more meditations already posted up). Maybe it’s because though I found the study of theology very rewarding, and reflecting on ministry and mission constantly moving me into new territory in terms of action, I find the place of prayer and meditation with the Bible open before me, and my prayer journal at my side (occasionally with help from others in the form of notes like these Lent meditations) a “sanctuary” crucial to keep me anchored in my relationship with God.

Tried to get some rest today. It’s been pretty stressful. A lot of unfinished tasks ahead. Alluding to a Chinese saying, I’m not a person with three heads and six hands.

More and more, I find face to face encounters a must. Reading someone behind a computer screen is ok to a certain extent – but not useful to read the motivations of another (unless it’s clearly stated). Guessing tends to send us off tangents which might hinder progress in understanding. Perhaps this is where a posture of risk and trust is a needed antidote to a tendency to be suspicious. Maybe it’s because we live in a world where trust is so fragile and we are in an environment which breathes more fear into our psyche.

how do we react perhaps reflects (1) The way we view our present because of our past, or (2) The way we view our future either due to our perceived fears or a vision for future change. I’m sure it’s not just 2 factors, but this is the two areas occupying our mind.

someone asked me about “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” in a class last Sunday. I tried to approach the question in the best way i think I could considering where the person asking is coming from as well as my own back ground. I thought about that a lot after the class because, looking back my experiences, and lessons and ways I’ve interpreted my experience and the way I read the various Biblical texts has changed (or at least become more nuanced). And then at the same time, even while I was trying to teach about the Holy Spirit (with the help of the Apostle’s Creed, Luther, and more) my mind was also thinking about how we relate to the Holy Spirit into the future as a Christian and the church.

Gone were the need for me to dwell on the controversies of the past (even though during the short time we did discuss a little on how people view their experience of the Holy Spirit), and there was also a conscious choice not to be closed to the work of the Spirit in the future. Of course, during this process, I think it was important not just to have a basic grasp of church history, but going back to the relevant biblical texts (which often are used to justify various positions are needed). Of course, one will arrive at least one way of interpreting the texts or even a number of ways where we can say it’s a faithful reading. And yet, there are experiences or opinions we have that we cannot deny but perhaps need a little bit longer to process them. What I valued especially for our time together last Sunday, is the need to emphasize we do it together (and not as isolated individuals detached from community – or to use the biblical term which I like – “the body of Christ).

Elysia prayed with me a short prayer before we ate dinner tonight. That was a precious moment. Then she bowed her head for another short time of prayer with my mom before Mom started her dinner. And later, she was the one also who was chasing me to bring her home. How often, the children lead us … not in childishness but in childlike reminders …

With that I’ll skip the Shandy … and go for some warm water. Some contemplation. And reading before I sleep.

As we move into the final stages preparing for the upcoming event on Saturday and Sunday (plus other bonuses!) It’s wonderful to get some encouraging emails. Please allow me to repost two:

“Hello to all of you in Malaysia, Singapore and elsewhere who are gathering for the Quiet Revolution of Hope conversation! I’ve been following the progress of Sivin and others organizing this and I’m so excited for you – it surely does bring hope to gather with others who are dreaming big dreams for the future of our communities of faith. I find hope every time I discover someone else who also feels a desire to see the body of Christ progress to the next place God has for us – what excitement we talk with! – When God does something locally, it’s one thing, but when you see it happening all around the world it really makes you wonder what God is up to. Blessings to you all from those of us on the other side of the world, here in New York City, who gather to hold this conversation.

Jeff Kursonis, church planter and Emergent Village Coordinating Group member”

and another one from my good friend Jason Clark who’s walked with us since day one.

“Dear Sivin & our brothers and sisters in Malaysia,

It has been wonderful to watch you gently and lovingly move people
into discussion and friendship, incarnating the very nature and hopes
many of us have found through our relationship with Emergent.

When I am asked me what Emergent is, I try to point to people who
embody, a ‘lived theology’ of our conversations/hopes/aspirations.
Thank you for being
people we can do that with. We esteem your desire to see people
connect at this time/space in ways that will deepen their faith, and
grow the body of Christ.

Be blessed, and we look forward to hearing your reports.

As ever,

Jason Clark
London, UK”

Short one for tonight. Need more energy when the sun rises tomorrow.

Looks like a lot of last minute registrations coming and for those of us directly involved more fine tuning. So it’s good to get some focus. I think especially in the light of some buzz surrounding the event ranging from “fantastic” to “compromising” (I’ll leave it to your imagination *smile*).

I thought I’ll pick out some lines I read some time ago from Brian’s website and fuse in some personal thoughts sparked by his Note to Readers

“1. Please do not cause dissension, division, or trouble on my account (or any other account!). If others say or write unfair or inaccurate things about me or my writings, please do not respond in kind. You may wish to offer some words of personal testimony by telling people how God has in some way helped you through my work, or you may want to offer your personal observation if you have met me in person, but please, please do not respond with harshness, counterattack, or defensiveness. …”

This requires a lot of self-discipline, restraint and maturity … and a couple of friends to unload first. If there aren’t many friends who are able or available to help process through the “stuff” … I’ve resorted to journaling (with God as my audience of one) when I’m frustrated with what I read. I think a lot done in the privacy of our communion with God does wonders.

“2. Please do not make me or even my books the issue. Make Christ and his teachings the issue, and make a right understanding of the Scriptures the issue. …”

I think this is a very important piece of advice. So often we get carried away … Lord have mercy. This Lent season is a good reminder on who is our ultimate absolute focus.

3. If you have become convinced of something from one of my books, and you hear a preacher or friend say the opposite, if at all possible, just let it slide. Instead, try to hear what they’re saying in a charitable light and learn whatever you can from it. Affirm whatever you can and don’t argue about the rest … “

I’ve never been good at arguing anyway. I like conversations (even those where people can disagree respectfully). I participated on two debate teams during school days, one for the Chinese society and one for the English society .. in both cases our opponents were girl schools, we lost both times. My conclusion is either girls are smarter than us boys and can out debate us or my calling is not in winning arguments with flowery rhetoric or densely formulated impressive logic (For the record: I am not anti-rational or think there’s no place of a reasonable discussion or well crafted argument which enhances understanding and learning). For now the focus for me is to encourage and facilitate the upcoming conversations with a team of wonderful friends. Uncharitable arguments don’t energize me, intense respectful conversations do. I’ll focus on the latter.

“4. Please don’t recommend my books to people who aren’t ready for them. I wouldn’t have been able to handle some ideas in my books twenty years ago, so I am sympathetic to people who can’t handle them now. The book that means the most to you may be a distraction to one of your friends, so please be careful and prayerful in this regard. Timing is, as they say, everything.”

Food for thought on this one …. I do think twice on which book to recommend Malaysian pastors or leaders. And I confess, the NKOC series is not my first choice (even though I personally enjoy them). Usually I go for The Church on the Other Side, Finding Faith and the recent The Secret Message of Jesus. At times, I’ll suggest A Generous Orthodoxy. It depends. I think Brian’s interviews and articles are pretty good conversation starters.

5. If you have become convinced of some things from my books which put you at odds with your church or organization, please do not undermine the leadership there. Please! People often ask my advice in these situations. I don’t think there is a universal prescription (except love your neighbors!), but when I was a senior pastor, here’s what I wish people would have done if they had differences with my leadership or teaching: First, I wish they would have come to me (or written to me) in private and in a friendly and nonthreatening way told me what they have come to see or believe (not what they think I should see or believe!). Then I wish they would have asked me for my advice on what they should do. Would I like the opportunity to present them with counter-arguments? Would I prefer that they leave and find another church? Would I prefer that they stay and share their ideas, gently and patiently of course, with others? Would I prefer that they form a small group to dialogue about these matters? Or maybe I think that they’re on the right track, but this congregation isn’t ready for their ideas, so perhaps they should consider finding or forming a new faith community? Third, I would have appreciated a promise that they wouldn’t cause dissension in the congregation, but would instead pursue what makes for peace and mutual edification.

If it turns out that you should leave, please write a letter of thanks to the church leaders – without even a hint of criticism – and leave them with a blessing, so that whenever you see one another in the future, they’ll have a good feeling about you and gratitude for your mature spirit. I think it is a good gesture to give a generous financial gift as part of your goodbye. If you have duties at the church, don’t leave without finding and training a replacement. Above all, don’t even get close to a church split or anything like it. It’s better to quietly withdraw than disturb the peace of a faith community in any way. Again echoing the apostle Paul, as far as it depends on you, be at peace with everyone, and be diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.”

As the only pastor of my congregation, I thought this was worth quoting in full ..

“6. If you are a pastor or other leader yourself, please do not impose on your congregation or organization ideas you have become convinced of through my books. Change is a process that requires wise and patient leadership. To rush new ideas into a sermon is often the very worst way to bring about change – apart from a change of address and employment, that is! If your congregation is open to new ideas and seeks a transformation in its identity to a more missional and emergent vocation, I would highly recommend you begin by finding an experienced consultant that you trust to guide you in this process”

As the only pastor of my congregation, I thought this was worth quoting in full too … change indeed is easier said than done. And it can be lonely.

“7. If you are mistreated simply because you agree with ideas in my books, then by all means seek out some friends who will understand. You’ll need some people with whom you can be open and honest so that you can process the pain and grief of mistreatment. You may need to seek a professional counselor or spiritual director’s help. Whatever you do, don’t let the mistreatment of others destroy your faith or make you lose heart. Doing so will in the end empower the people who have behaved badly. Instead, let their mistreatment drive you deeper into God’s compassionate care.”

It’s advice like this that moves one forward. It’s just to tempting to either fall backward into some kind of whirlpool self-absorbed depressive state or simply being stuck into inactivity or even apathy. I suppose it’s understandable why some of us would land up there for whatever reason. But for me, I always sense deep inside in whatever circumstance … a gentle whisper calling me forward.

“8. An idea: if you’re excited about something you’ve gained from my work, instead of turning it into discussion, first turn it into action and invite others to get involved with the action.”

Talking about it is always easier. But this is such a good and simple idea. I’m growing weary even of my own words at times.

“9. If you see people who have been helped by my books doing the opposite of one of these requests, please encourage them to read or re-read this letter.”

This is not easy, but we can try. As long as people are willing to listen, I guess there’s still hope

“It has been my policy to avoid defending myself. Occasionally I have offered some clarification, and I am in the process of writing a friendly note to my critics, asking for their cooperation in raising the quality of dialogue in our Christian communities. But I do not want to become defensive, nor do I want to get anywhere close to counter-attack, aggressively or passive-aggressively. If I do that, I have violated the message I’m trying to live and communicate.”

I hope to participate in raising the quality of dialogue too … there’s still so much to learn.

REVISITING THE CRITICAL ASIAN PRINCIPLE
I need to have a fresh look at the CRITICAL ASIAN PRINCIPLE again. Then walk through the process of Rethinking Critical Asian Principle. And then the more important question: What does all this mean for me a pastor? and as a Christian now?

Developing Theology
Accidental delightful discovery! VERY delightful indeed.

Roy Bhaskar Interviewed
Hmmm … this is heavy for brunch!
” Q. Can you tell us what is distinctive about critical realism as compared with other realist epistemologies and philosophies of science?

And so I would say that the three major distinctive things about critical realism are: its transcendental and dialectical character; the content of its particular theses; and the fact that it is critical of the nature of reality itself, in the first instance social reality, including the impact of human beings upon the natural world in which they are embedded and in which they are at present creating so much havoc.”

We had a good time of prayer tonight. After all the talk on final preparations and further fine tuning in planning, and then some level of laughter and updates on the “buzz” surrounding the event. What for me I found precious was the time we prayed together. The language of prayer is where we connected with the One who we entrust ourselves to especially one week before the event.

We’re grateful to Mike Foong and his team in helping us get the audio-video set up ready. I’m totally blur when it comes to technical stuff like this. And yet, those like Mike blossom in this kind of tasks. I’m curious to see how the potential DVD will turn out. Maybe a director’s cut?

We’re grateful to Pastor Raj and Reuben and everyone at Christian Life Gospel Centre for the logistic support they are giving.

We’re grateful to Laurie from Council of Churches of Malaysia who’s been working behind the scenes making sure the registrations and payments are in order and helping us to keep track on the latest sign ups. She’ll also be welcoming all who are coming.

We’re grateful to Bob Kee who’s revamped the emergentMalaysia website. He’s also coaching us with relevant tips when it comes to communications matters.

We’re grateful to Adeline settling various quotations for us to decide on and keeping an eye on how people can be fed in the coming weekend!

We’re also grateful to Yew Khuen our chairman who’s guiding the group gently in spite of his own heavy schedule. He makes sure the details are checked from the budget to various check lists. I’m looking forward to see how the small group questions and guide can help the participants “personalize” their learning and be open to listen to others.

We’re especially grateful for all the conversation partners and facilitators. I have heard from some “interesting” conversations they have already been part of simply by having their name printed on the same brochure with Brian McLaren! Others talked about different reactions and eyebrows raised because of their participation in this event.

I’d only wish those who may have questions to come for the event, at least the open night meeting. Meet Brian for themselves and hear the conversation partners interact. I’d be happy to say hello! Moving from a more distant stance to a more face to face posture does us all much good. Furthermore, I think we have a pretty good framework to get ourselves thinking together. I don’t think it will be too technical or very academic sounding or with high flying rhetoric. I foresee a very human encounter of minds and hearts of followers of Christ which will desires to benefit all who participate.

Oh yes … We’re also grateful for all those who have already signed up. Especially those traveling all the way from Singapore (thanks for the phone call), from the east coast and islands, as well as the historic city of Malacca. The schedule is a little tight, but let’s see how this intensive time together might generate missional possibilities.

We have not achieved much yet (depending on perspective), but nothing should stop us from expressing gratitude. All thanks ultimately goes to God.

Tonight, I valued very much our time of prayer tonight. I felt the Spirit move amongst us quietly and gently. This convinced me once again the need for an authentic spirituality to be at the heart what often are 2 opposite poles – reflection and praxis.

Thanks Jason Clark for voicing this out here The whole post is worth quoting in full with some thoughts I picked out in the comments which I found helpful.

I’ve had the idea of “people like Jesus and not the church” as blog post in my ideas box for a while. Seeing that Dan Kimble has his new book out on this topic got me to drag it out and put it here. I’m sure Dan’s book is as great as his previous books, I haven’t read it yet, and what follows it not a critique of his book but a reference to the idea of people being into Jesus and not church.

Since the day I became a christian I have heard people say people like Jesus but not the church. I can remember when I wasn’t a christian and liked the idea of Jesus but not of church for sure. I’ve heard variations of this, along the lines of “if Jesus came back today do you think he would be visiting any of our churches?” with the reponse that of course Jesus wouldn’t be caught dead (excuse the pun) in our churches.

Now for certain the church has gotten in the way of people knowing Jesus. Nothing new there just read the New Testament, seems the church was a stumbling block to many people who were interested in Jesus. And we do need to look at how the church, supposedly the body of Christ can too often be the thing that keeps people from Jesus.

Yet lets also umask the myth of people being into Jesus and not the church. Are people really into Jesus? Maybe in the way we are into a celebrity. The Pope, Mother Terressa can be media celebrities that millions adore, but when it comes to believing and doing what they do, people are far from interested in them.

Maybe people are into Jesus the celebrity, it would be cool to meet him, see a miracle, maybe have him help me directly away from those pesky church people to meet my needs. But to follow him, believe in him, do what he did, lay down my life for others, is that really the Jesus people are into?

We see in the New Testament, Jesus unmask the church of his day that kept people from knowing God, yet as people followed him their numbers dwindled, as they realised that jesus the celebrity and Jesus as lord and master of my life was something very different. And utlimately where was the explosion of people that really connected to a life devoted to following Jesus? It was in the church in Acts.

We still like binary opposites, of Jesus to the church but without the church there is no Jesus, and without Jesus there is no church. I imagine Jesus on a cold rainy sunday in London, would walk into the dead local anglican church and sit next to the 80 year lady, whose whole life had been lived around a rhythmn of worship, who quitely and completely unknown had done more mission through her faith through that dead church, than most people who talked about and aspired to mssion. I imagine he would turn to her and say ‘well done’. Church is one place we might still find Jesus.

some extras below from Jason:

“… when people want to say they are into jesus, and not church, they are not into Jesus at all, and would like the people of the new testament decide not to follow him.

And I prepared to give the rest of my life pursuing Jesus with others in His church, rather than construct him on my own terms, with the church in all it’s mess, rather than some idealised notion of having Jesus without the mess of other people who know him too.

… …and for christian the church is the body of Christ, something dear to us that we find Jesus in in all it’s mess. The notion of a non mediated, non incarnated jesus who is available without the church is the myth of consumer media culture.

… I am the first to talk about how the church gets in the way, I’m not arguing for the church to do nothing and not change it needs to desperately, but so do the people who set themselves apart from it, as if it doesn’t concern them when it comes to Jesus.

… today you’d think church was the last place for Jesus, and certainly to dare to hope that church might a place where jesus is found, and to aspire for it to to do so seems more than a little like swimming against the tide.

… what happens if we get rid of the church, and just let Jesus meet people, how do they learn about him, and grow to follow him, on their own? Or do they do that with other people? And what do you call a new bunch of non church people trying to help each other follow Jesus, maybe church? And that new group/collection/gaggle will be full of people, just like the rest of people in other churches.

We have too idealised a notion of church, and an idealised version of jesus, that involves not needing to explore that with others in the real world.”

My little comment which I tried to post:
“Thanks Jason for this post. We need to hear this. I think when there’s too much church bashing, we are the ones who get hurt in the end … in the long run.

I’m joining you in this pursuit! Looking forward to see others come along.”

I submit the following Mandarin oranges in the form of these links (HT: Tallskinnykiwi)
as Chinese New Year refreshments! The context is different but the lessons are useful.

Is Emergent Heretical?
“The so-called emerging church is not a monolithic, single-minded, doctrinally united, movement that can be either embraced or rejected as if it everyone in it thinks the same thing. I’m sure there are individuals within emergent who, in the eyes of fundamentalists and some conservative evangelicals, hold to uncomfortable and perhaps even erroneous positions. But the movement itself has no doctrinal statement because it is not a church, or even a para-church organization. It started as, and continues to be a forum for conversation for emerging leaders who are struggling to respond missionally to a post-Christian culture, which by the way is what Chuck Smith did 40 years ago when he reached out to the Jesus people and introduced contemporary music to his church. I fear that Chuck Smith’s statement rather than contributing to the new conversation about missional effectiveness simply shuts dialogue down.”

Does Emergent Promote Pluralism? -1-,
“If you follow Schliermacher then you can easily argue, as does John Hick, for theological pluralism. But that’s not the message I’m hearing in emergent. Are there individuals within emergent who believe and teach that? Perhaps, but on the whole I’m not hearing it. However, I am hearing dissatisfaction with the traditional evangelical view. I am hearing unease with how some evangelicals have answered the question, “What is the destiny of those who die outside of Christ?” I hear a desire to change the way that question is answered, but the new approach is not pluralism, but something else.”

-2-,
“What is the destiny of those who die outside of Christ? Some are saying that the emergent church movement is promoting a form of pluralism in response to that question. I don’t agree. I do sense dissatisfaction with the traditonal view, but I don’t think the replacement view is pluralism.

My experience, however, is that those who have questioned some aspects of the so-called traditional view have done so as a matter of theological and biblical study and reflection and not as an emotional cave-in to the culture. They have also done so because of a rediscovery of the Church Fathers and variants in how the early church understood the saving significance of Christ. “

-3-,
-4-,
” So far I’ve answered the question, “Does the emerging church movement promote pluralism?” with a hardy, “no”, if you define pluralism as theological relativism where every religion is said to have saving significance. At the same time, many leaders in the emerging church are re-thinking the traditional evangelical view on the ultimate destiny of the unevangelized. They aren’t replacing the traditional view with pluralism or universalism, but with inclusivism, which is a very different animal.

… Indications of inclusivist thinking are found in a wide variety of Christian leaders and theological parties, including Billy Graham, J. I. Packer, C. S. Lewis, The Westminster Confession, John Wesley, fundamentalist forerunner William Shedd, and the Roman Catholic Church.”

-5-
Lots of quotes to reflect on.

-6-
Not sure whether he will go on … but the whole discussion now has broaden beyond whether “does Emergent promote pluralism?” The 6 post slow down and unpacking does us much good.

especially during this season of Lent