Sivin Kit's Adventures

Archive for September, 2006

[this cool bike above is at the lobby of the resort we are in]

There’s a sudden feeling of “networking” overload right now which makes me need some “unload” time right now. Thus, random thoughts return.

I’m glad I’m here … at Port Dickson. I’m sensing a kind of leading of some sort. Now it’s discerning what is the next step.

The dinner tonight was good … not because of the food (which was also good) but because of the opportunity to listen to men who are so much more smarter and in many ways wiser than I am. The conversations beyond dinner have totally stimulated me until I find it hard to sleep. Thus, some random thoughts.

I hope I can cope in the next few days physically and emotionally

I miss my kids and wife.

I need to work out how to “delegate” for church ministry tomorrow.

I find myself genuinely and happily suprised by what is “emerging” out of the new relationships forged and the conversations since Monday night until now. I never imagined this would have happened. These surprises are good.

It’s nice to get lots of goodies – books, CDs, DVDs etc.

Tomorrow is going to be a long day – with some traveling and connecting people again. I’m noticing this today “connect” – “connect” – “connect” … I enjoy it. It energizes me to see what might possibly happen.

Glad there was no rain today.

I got to know my room mate better today too … he’s sleeping.

I’ve got a lot of things on my mind. Name changes. Possible new directions. It’s easier to think about Malaysia. Asia seems big but perhaps that is one dream to consider. After all is said and done, some of the current “networking” – or genuine friendships formed is already better than I expected.

I have so much I need to learn … and there’s much floating in my head that requires settling down. Keeping theological reflection close together with missional praxis consciously is a fascinating exercise. Now how to we move to the next level and do this in community … naturally (and perhaps virtually?) but more important consistently for a sustained period of time which would bring genuine fruit.

I REALLY feel much gratitude to those who made it possible for me to be at this place. A big thank you to them .. a Big thank you to God!

Now, feeling a little bit wiser more restful … with much more reforming to happen .. I shall move into horizontal meditation – sleep.

Finally I managed to make it for the Lausanne Younger Leaders Gathering 2006. At first I thought I was unable to make it due to multiple reasons but thanks be to God I’m here. And I’m glad to be able to get the wifi signal in our room!

Here’s the YLG 06 Blog.

I laughed and laughed the first time I saw this You Might Be Emerging If… Apparently Brian McLaren has strong opinions on this. Hamo from Oz did his version here You TOO might be emergent… which inspired me to join the fun I will take great liberty to rephrase whatever I want – as a form of self-examination.

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Might I Be Emerging/Emergent if…

I am a Thirty something Chinese Malaysian (Ok I’m not too sure about how Chinese I am .. but that’s another story). Can never get that mustache grown in time (dont’ even talk about a goatee!) Defintely no sign of body piercing and tatoos.

from

a short while lingering in (I’m cheating here … I spend 5 wonderful Childhood years here)

I use a Compaq Presario X1000 (Note: I don’t own it, the church loans it to me)

Without me giving last names (in some cases first names), I still know who these people are:

Yoon
Lesslie
Hwa
Ng
Brian
Siti
Wong
Sherman
Jason
Herman
Alwyn
Scot
Mahatma
Boon
Hsi
Tony
David
D.T.
Tan
Abdullah

I like to drink

and reading or discussing one or more of the following:

and of course …

with a liberal (at times conservative) dose of

Lor … Lah … Ah? … Aiyo! … What…. Changgih! … Wahlau …

I’m listening to:

on my (ok I confess I do have an IPOD but most of the time I use the notebook to listen)

I use these words in a positive way:

Contextual, Christ, Creed, Post-colonial, Conversation, Asian, Resonate, Authentic, Missional, Catalyst, Center, Journey, Partners, Local, Global, Lutheran, Jesus, Quest, Random, Blog, Emergent, Emerging, Learning, Culture, Social Concern/Justice, Open, Scripture, Heritage, Theology, “Jamban”

I use these words in a negative way:

Legalism, Arrogance, Heresy-hunting, Judgmental, Trends, Hype, Busyness, Imperialistic, Insensitive, Rationalistic, Technique, Formulas, Religious, “Sui”

I have

on the windscreen and

stuck on my rear view mirror

on my (which in reality belongs to my wife!)

-or- (my son would have prefered)

I have to look at these pics twice because it might be me:

(actually once will do!)

Our worship service looks like

-or-

-or-

-or-

-or-

This is my leg:

I see this on a website and know exactly what to do:

I do quite a sense of humor,I’m not REALLY that tad irritated with this post.

* This “list” is neither exhaustive nor exclusive. No single one of these traits indicates that I might be part of the EC, but at some point, a cummulative weight will let me know if I am Emerging or Emergent.*

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On a more serious note, it took me quite a while to do this post. Dan Kimball is insightful here after walking us through Origins of the terms “Emerging” and “Emergent” church :

“What all this word origin discussion means in the light of world problems, people suffering, wars etc. is so incredibly insignificant and even silly…”

Yesterday it felt good to send in a article entitled “A Quest for Authentic Faith & Community in the World Today: Eavesdropping on the “Emerging church”/”Emergent” conversation” to a local Malaysian Christian Publication. I will post it up after they publish it

Being excited I sent it out a “sneak preview” to see if there would be any responses. Here’s some edited versions of what they said and my immediate (slightly unrefined) reply. I’m posting up these conversations between us Malaysians to give a glimpse on themes and concerns (their words and questions in bold):

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Are the words used to describe Emergent movt and Emergent churches ours (i.e. Malaysians speaking that same language)?

Some of us find “resonance” with the words used like missional, conversation, friendship, and the characteristics mentioned in the Emerging Churches book. But I can only speak for myself and some of us (which to me is a minority). Thus, I don’t “see” this movement here (as compared to the cell church movement, etc) .. it’s too early to tell. I would suspect that some of us might find some convergence with the themes discussion in the more theologically oriented Emergent Village related conversations … (cf. McLaren, etc). At least I do, whether or not postmodern is used. I talked about it in my book review on the Church on the other side here years ago (before Brian was making waves and facing with criticisms)

Personally, I don’t like the term “emergent churches” (sounds too much like a brand) .. I can bear with emerging churches as a descriptive term (in short I don’t like branding)

I did not hear you mention what words some of those at the Emergent Malaysia might use to describe why they came together.

good question .. we tried to hint at it here and there in the last part .. an article is always limiting. I’ll try to send an email to the Yahoogroup and see some response.

I think it would be good to get a local perspective – local stories / narratives of the issues people are having about their churches. If not we still follow a trend began in the US or in the West and so may be seen as being Western-influenced.

I think we are slowly working on this .. but with caution – because we want to handle with care some of the stories … and allow some space for constructive processes to take place .. so when the stories are shared, some angst have been worked through.

Like it or not, because of how we are already so influenced … it’s not suprising, we have similar results with what is happening in the US and west. One person did comment to me .. our “angst” is more respectful and less deconstructive.

Personally, I have consistently insisted right from the start … using the phrase “conversation partners/friends” to differentiate that we are NOT merely “following a trend” imported from the west (cf. in contrast with “whole sale imported” programs?) I think this distinction is important.

Anyway good piece to get people thinking about it. Now will they begin to look at themselves and their churches and learn to be self-aware and self-critical? May our Lord move us to reflect Him and not ourselves.

Thanks, I had the impression people wanted a kind of primer and intro about it. and then a little on any thing in Malaysia Appreciate your participation in one way or another.

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Thanks for the preview. I have enjoyed reading the article. It will be a good introduction to readers on what the emergent church and movement is all about. It will also introduce readers or even make known that there is Emergent Malaysia. Good work.

That was what I think was expected so, we went along that drift. Notice, we never used the term “emergent church” in the piece. It was quite deliberate. Persoanlly, I don’t like the term (because it’s tends towards a branding mentality I’m uncomfortable with). I’m still ok with emerging churches, and Ray Anderson’s use of “emergent” theology (see attached excerpts from what I think is his useful contribution theologically to the whole jazz – here (preface) and here (chapter 1)). In my mind, I think I would generally follow Anderson’s way of seeing the whole phenomena and what is possible.

At this stage I don’t “see” an emerging church movement in Malalysia (cf. compared to what we felt through the cell chruch movement for example) and it’s very much still a conversation amongst a small group of us. I may be wrong.

If I may offer some comments … you have not adequately addressed the issue why so many mainline churches are wary of the emergent church movement. I know you have touched on it briefly. As a reader, as I read your piece, it sounds as if the emergent movement is the coming revival. Then I would wonder why so many church leaders are worried about it (and it is not the generational gap).

Perhaps as one who is not an “objective” outsider, I can’t hide some of the excitement because of how being part of the conversation has generated for me personally. But I’m not sure “the emergent movement is the coming revival” was what I intended. I think it’s a needed conversation, I think we need to allow for some space for it.

As for critics, if you read the 9 Marks link .. I think the authors there have articulated themselves pretty clearly. It’s interesting to read the one Bio datas of the authors.

it is not so much from mainline churches (e.g. Anglican, Methodist, Lutheran – in fact according to Diana Bass she is welcoming of the developments) One of the early participants (and still is) of the emergent village USA coordinating group is Rev. Karen Ward (who encouraged me to blog by the way) She isl inked with the Lutheran and episcopalian denomination in church planting. I see the emerging church movement and emergent conversation (notice we try to distinguish it a little without dividing it) as part of the bigger move of the Missional Church emphasis (which I STRONGLY feel has relevance in a contextual form in Asia)
This link captures the deeper theological currents underneath (Emergent is mention at the end of the article).

Where did the initial definition of the emergent church (the not flattering one) comes from?

I think you have brought out a good point (an earlier draft included it – maybe I should have put it in) – but the piece was getting longer. It’s mentioned in Brian’s Book A Generous Orthodoxy. But Dan Kimball tells us about it here and here

The article reads a bit choppy. The flow is not really there

Perhaps we were trying too hard to sqeeze too much in there. And then again, it might actually reflect reality of our “choppy” conversations

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“… The problem I have is that in this conversation, I am just learning to speak. I have not spent enough time to make any comments of significance in terms of trends and the thoughts of writers. so sorry, I can’t comment much on the academic aspects of the article.

However I must say that if really pushed for why I would then want to align myself with a “conversation” that is generally badly maligned and misunderstood, it would simply be the attractiveness of the godly spirit in which the whole “movement” is set and the generally uncharitable spirit in which other camps which fight for truth seem to have.

… people are more receptive and open simply becasue they know you genuinely respect and love them – even if you might disagree with them strongly etc.”

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Thanks Bob Brow for this piece. I sure miss our email exchanges
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“How can you say God smiles when there is not one reference to smiling in the Bible? And yet smiling seems to be an essential characteristic of genuine Christian faith.

Obviously some kinds of smiling are not compatible with the love of God. There is the smile of the torturer who loves to watch his victims writhing in agony. When gladiators were made to fight in the Roman arena, the emperor and his officers smiled as a brave man died. And there is the smile of self-satisfaction when an opponent is defeated in a business deal.

But here is a list of some of the smiles that make life happier and more beautiful:

THE SMILE OF GREETING As I have been convalescing from a stroke, I have gone walking every day. I try smiling at those I meet. About one in five are happy to respond with a smile. My wife Mollie who died two years ago was known as the lady who smiled at everyone. A warm loving church congregation is recognized by the smiles.

THE SMILE OF WELCOME Lovers smile when they see each other. We smile at friends and relatives and children. If people don’t smile when you come to their home you know you are not welcome. “Please come another day when it is more convenient for me.” But that can also be turned into a smile as we say “Can you come later this afternoon?”

THE SMILE OF FORGIVENESS When we are greeted with a smile if we have made a terrible blunder or said the wrong thing, we know we are forgiven.

THE SMILE FOR ENEMIES Paul said “Do not be overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good” (Romans 12:21). The best way of restoring a relationship or winning over an enemy is to make up our mind to smile when we meet them.

The problem is that each of these kinds of smile only emerges from adopting a heart attitude. The smile begins long before it is expressed. With an enemy or tiresome person at work you have to practice the smile till it comes out naturally at the right moment.

Now we can see that God’s love for us is a continuing greeting. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit love it when we notice them on the way. They never exclude us or say “come back when it is convenient for me.” And there is always forgiveness for us, however badly we have failed or hurt one of the members of the Trinity. Their way of winning over enemies is by smiling at them again and again.

Having grasped the smiles of God, we can then ask for the miracle of smiling to bubble up from deep within our heart. When that happens life takes on a wonderfully new quality of love and joy and peace.”

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Sherman has been offering some dishes for us to taste and see whether it’s good for all – especially those of us in Asia. I’ll pick out some samples (in bold) and throw in a few comments.

Voice of Asia (Prologue)
“A friend of mine – a journalist by training, presently working as a writer for a mission organisation and also a student of the seminary I teach in – has been engaged in a series of conversations with me concerning Christianity in Asia, and more specifically, in Malaysia. This conversation arose from his interest in understanding the present ethos of Asian Christianity and how the Church in Asia may seek to mature in her faith and proclamation of the gospel.”

Indeed we often clarify ourselves better in conversation with “another”.

Voice of Asia (1)
“Let me begin with what is not (and if I may emphasise, what should not be) a primary influence of Asians coming to Christ – arguments, no matter how logically coherent they may be. I think many well-meaning western-influenced apologetic-inclined Christians are culturally very insensitive and disconnected from the local paradigm of life and religious faith. They think that if they come with a nicely charted out linear-logically constructed argument about why Jesus should be embraced as Saviour and Lord, then people are obligated to accept the faith. Eventually, they find themselves becoming little more than pedlers of a historical faith that has been reduced into a series of simplistic propositions about the Christian faith. In their process of gospelising the Asian society, the heart of the gospel itself is somewhat lost.

… To sum up, I would say that a solely propositional proclamation of the faith (represented by logical arguments, also called “apologetics”) is deficient in representing the heart of the Christian faith. The faith must be presented as a relational one, where God is demonstrated as the personal God. For the fulfilment of this requisite, I believe power encounters have been very instrumental in the propagation of the gospel in Asia. This case becomes self-explanatory when one contemplates on the way in which the Pentecostal-Charismatic movement has grown in Asia in the past several decades.”

Voice of Asia (2)
“I think our understanding of the Christian faith needs to be restored into a communal paradigm of life and faith before Christian discipleship can take place effectively. After all, the community of faith is the interpretive community for the revelation of God. Much of Christianity here needs to rise beyond an individualistic paradigm. Local Christians need to learn to live within community, for community, and be accountable to community for the way they choose to express their faith in their lives. Only within such kingdomic relationships will Christian discipleship take place in an authentic and effective way.”

Voice of Asia (3)
“What I’m trying to say is, deeply etched within the Asian cultural paradigm is a narratival way of communicating our values. Why should it be different for the communication of the gospel? Look at the way Jesus communicated with the Asian crowd (just so we’re reminded that Christianity IS an Asian faith!) – what method of communication did he commonly use? Stories! He narrated his theological principles in the form of stories. Stories have a powerful way of impacting people, ranging from the most intellectually sophisticated to the most simple-minded people. Stories have a way of penetrating through psychological and emotional defences that people erect to guard their reluctance to change.”

and even our cultural vocal chords are no longer “pure” but may sound “hoarse” after the pounding of foreign influences for better or worse and has evolved into what is before us now (and not we nostalgically we may want it to look like?)

Voice of Asia (4)
“We also need to re-examine our foundations. Within our tradition, this preceeding statement itself would provoke a fear of slipping into the clutches of liberal theology. But to not re-examine our foundations is to embrace the equal folly of misrepresenting the heart of the gospel, which may constitute an equal wrong. There are those among us who have emphatically affirmed that as Asian Christians, we have to move beyond the colonial Christianity that we have received. In the same breath, it is emphasised that this enterprise has to start with the word of God. But isn’t our understanding and handling of the word itself (our hermeneutical exercise) also colonially conditioned? Do such realities not need to be acknowledged? If so, does it not also present the imperative of examining, deconstructing, and reconstructing our foundations? Are we culturally as unperceptive as many well-meaning colonial missionairies were? If the Christian faith has in all these past decades and centuries been presented as a faith based on a linear-logical foundation, perhaps it is time for us to recover the circular-logical and parallel-logical dimensions of the faith as Asian Christians. If it has all this while been based on a propositional foundation, perhaps it is time for us to recover the relational and intuitive dimension of the faith as an authentic Asian faith.”

perhaps we are working with a kind of “rationality” that includes reasons (while recognizing it’s limits) and relationality (which perhaps may have been neglected and needs renewed emphasis) as a key enviroment in which we reason, experience, feel, guess, explore, etc.

Voice of Asia (5)
“For as long as Malaysia does not have an intention to develop a theology that is grounded upon our own contextual realities and be willing to pay the cost for that belief, I don’t think we will be anywhere near being ready to send missionaries on a large scale into the missionfield. We will merely continue living on a borrowed faith and subsist on teachings from the West which aren’t very connected to our context of ecclesial life and theology.”

Voice of Asia (6)
“We need to see, as a Malaysian Church, that we are “called” into different vocations based on our personalities, our giftings, our competencies, and our dispositions. These vocations are the very platforms for us, as Malaysian Christians, to be salt and light in the world. Our vocations are the vehicles for our being the sacramental presence of Christ in the world. Only when this theological value is ingrained in the Malaysian mind that it will “make sense” for one to desire to establish the presence of Christ through his/her vocation in a less developed nation.”

I think more posts are on the way.

A MHP Interview with Simon Chan, author of Liturgical Theology: The Church as Worshiping Community (HT: Sherman)
OK! I’m getting the book … for now this sounds good: “If the church is extrinsic to God, then its worship is equally extrinsic, a matter of taste and of fulfilling some pragmatic end like evangelism. If the church is essentially a sociological reality, then worship is largely to achieve certain social ends. But if the church is a spiritual reality, linked in some intrinsic way to the life of the Trinity—and this link can only make sense if the church is related to God’s eternal purpose—then worship is also a spiritual activity intrinsic to the very being of the church. If the action of the triune God brings forth the church, then worship is simply the response of the church to the work of the Trinity.

… A church whose drawing point is the polished sermon of the preacher is likely to draw people of a certain intellectual level. Whereas a good liturgical service with its sights and sounds, tactile and visual elements, rational and imaginative dimensions, fixed (“ordinaries”) and variable components (“propers”) will have something for all classes of people from all walks of life.”

My vision of our great Church (Ht: Maggi)
I sent this to my Bishop .. he replied positively: “…the best things happen in parishes. Important bishops may stack up the air-miles travelling to important meetings, but it’s really in parishes* that the Church does its stuff: the assembly at the school; communion in the home for the elderly; going for a walk with the woman whose husband has left her; the funeral visits; the youth-club disco; fund-raising for the local homelessness charity; the bloke out walking his dog and stopping to tell you how long he has waited for his operation.

God flits in and out of the conversation. Then it all comes together on a Sunday morning, as the word is preached and the bread is broken. For a real treat, it all has to be topped off with the choir singing Howells’s Coll. Reg. at evensong. None of this is theological rocket science, but it’s what we do best. Act local, think cosmic.”

Some theses on heresy
wow! “A mere recitation of confessions of Jesus Christ does not preserve theology from becoming heretical, but makes it all the more heretical. The mere recitation of confessions is christological superstition.”

Disappointment with the Church
There’s more than meets the title in this book review!

Is Christianity Irredeemably Sexist?
This is not merely about women’s ordination or being in leadership!

Salvation and Spiritual Formation
Interesting …

A Grace Party
We need more of these!

* Andrew Hamilton (Hamo) did us a great service by posting up his recent conversations with D.A. Carson – and confirms to me the need to be quick to listen, slow to speak and slower to publish. That is partly why people like me in Asia have been pretty silent and cautious on matters regarding emerging church movement or emergent conversation unless I’m asked. Hamo did ask me to give some thoughts which was nice – and I said I’d try to do it after an article i wrote on “the emerging church movement” for a local monograph/magazine. For now, I’ll pick out the stuff Hamo wrote that caught my attention.*

The Carson Conversation I
“I re-read Carson’s book on the day before and as I did got quite angry at the criticisms he levelled which just are not true of most of those I know in the Australian scene. I found myself needing to stop and pray that we would listen to each other and not just fire a bunch of bullets, because I was not impressed.”

… One thing he did stress was that he felt the EC in Oz (at least as defined by Geoff and I) would not be considered EC in other parts of the world. Hmmm… And therein lies much of the problem.

the Carson Conversation II
“Those who know me would know that I haven’t always sat comfortably with the term ‘emerging church’, because it has such different meanings around the world and I don’t want to sign on to some of those definitions.

… A large part of my concern with what Carson had to say was related to the fact that I don’t know any theologically aberrant ECers, but the book seemed to suggest they were the norm.”

The Carson Conversation III
“Someone asked me if I still see myself as part of the emerging church, given Carson’s critique and his statement that ‘we may not actually be considered emerging in other parts of the world’. My response is to say ‘Yes I am.’ Not because I subscribe to all that he critiques, but largely because I am not about to allow him to define me out.”

The Carson Conversation IV
“He did however mention yet again that we seemed to be of a different breed to the North American scene and that he was not concerned that we drift off in eccentricity. That’s an interesting comment because (as much as I am ignorant) I would assume there is great diversity in the US scene also.”

The Carson Conversation Final Reflections
“Perhaps the critique that is offered of the EC would be better received if it were not given (by some) with the implication that many of us are probably no longer Christians. In the face of those kinds of comments I do get tempted to sign up for a crazy liberal theological position just out of frustration. Usually its only the more wacky ‘reformed’ bloggers who make these suggestions, but others sometimes walk a thin line too.”

Sivin makes the point that even if there is some validity of this stuff to the English speaking western world, there is still Asia and Africa to consider. Do they fit the critique also? Sivin – I’d love to hear your take on it all.

“If I had to choose some issues to say ‘yes’ to, then I’d sign on to the final warning about sectarianism. There is always the danger of creating divisions and polarising, not what we are about (see Geoff’s section) Of course the publishing of the book actually contributed to a further marginalisation of the ECs as churches became somewhat more skeptical and other significant leaders (Piper etc) began to speak out also. So in a sense the sectarianism was actually foisted on us by the critique.”

Funny thing is this was the first time we’ve met at a Starbucks for an emergent Malaysia open meeting (eMo for short) . I think it’s also a first for using Sunday as well. It was a small group of 9 of us this round (would have been 10 if I didn’t miss seeing an SMS sent to me earlier) but good to have those who were missing for quite a while make their return.

As usual Alwyn is the fastest blogger to “craft” a post out to reflectively report our meeting yesterday afternoon here: And What Have You Been Reading?
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Stepped for the first time into Bangsar Village. New mini-mall: low ceilings, cool clean ambience, perfect for family shopping, a date, a comfortable meal and catching up with friends.

Met up with Sivin, Alpha, Reuben, Don, Kia Meng, Yew Khuen, Joanne and Jade at the Bangsar Village Starbucks. Kinda interesting how books led the (informal) agenda.

Got a copy of Stanley Grenz’s Renewing the Center, generously bought for me by Sivin (can’t wait to take that with me to the train-station!) Flipped through it and one of the first sub-sections I saw was Rethinking Calvinism. Ahh. Like I said, can’t wait.

Jade talked a little about her latest N.T. Wright book, Simply Christian. She contrasted it with C.S. Lewis’ Mere Christianity, noting how MC had a more rationally oriented bent compared to SC which used worship as a launching pad for thinking about Christian coherence, spirituality, mission from both individual and communcal perspectives.

She highlighted Wright’s triple perspectives on the integration between ‘heaven’ and ‘earth’, the first being pantheistic (where nature is worshipped as God), second the deistic view (where God is absent) and finally the (presumably) Christian view with God being the creator yet suffering for His creation and creatures. (Note: Wright also talks a lot about the dualistic view – where nature is ignored or degraded – in his other books and how the Gospel is meant as a subversive challenge to both pantheism and dualism – deism is more of an Englightenment add-on to these two ancient worldviews).

Simply Christian is out in paperback, at least in the UK. May it make it’s way safe to our local bookshops, if it hasn’t already.

Then Yew Khuen and Joanne told us how their cell-group was studying Philip Yancey’s (who’s actually a proto-Emergent, in someone’s colourful phraseology) What’s So Amazing About Grace?, particularly their delight at how their cell members began pouring out their stories bit by bit. Yancey, like many good authors, gently carves out a pathway in our hearts for further questions, deeper authenticity and awe from the “scandal” of grace and overall more sensitivity to the world and God’s heart for it. [Disclaimer: These aren't their exact words, but I hope I won't be seen as just making things up! *grin*]

Somewhere between 3.30 and 5 o’clock we re-celebrated Alpha’s wonderful quote about nurturing the hunger for God – surely one of the best gifts we could offer to seekers, to struggling disciples, to the younger generation.

Reuben then told us a little about SoulAction. He also shared about how Raj, pastor of CLGC, announced to the church a scientifically proven method for selecting a cell-group: Go to the buletin board, take a look at the faces of the cell leaders, and choose your cell! This was part of a discussion about how there is a “hierarchy” (often unspoken, at times oft-spoken) that a Christian must progress along in his life of discipleship, and about how there is a lot of suppressed pressure and anxiety by many Christians about ‘moving up’ the ladder.

(Urgent: We also need to stop right now and pray for Pastor Raj’s little boy who’s suffering from dehydration of sorts and as at this afternoon was warded. His condition is stable but let’s ask the Spirit to heal him and be with Raj’s family.)

We then more or less rounded with Alpha and Kia Meng briefly mentioning their leafing through M. Scott Peck’s People of the Lie and James KA Smith’s Who’s Afraid of PostModernism? respectively. I was intrigued by both. I haven’t read a word of Peck (except in a few of those motivation books), only know him for The Road Less Travelled and didn’t even know he passed away last year.

As for Smith’s book, Kia Meng briefly touched on Smith’s selective dealing with aspects of Derrida (“There is nothing outside the Text” – everything has to be seen in context, not that there is no meaning or objective reality outside language), Foucault (discipline isn’t always a ‘bad’ thing and in fact breeds true freedom, especially in a community like the church) and Lyotard (we needn’t be concerned about Christianity being a meta-narrative because it isn’t one[!], hence the possibility of full-blown declaration and proclamation of the Gospel). For an on-going and very scholarly conducted discussion of Smith’s book go to Church & PostModern Culture: Conversation.

Two hours. Half a dozen books and more than a dozen conversations. Loads of laughter, learning and comraderie. What more could one ask for?

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Here’s the invitation I sent our via our yahoorgroup.
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… we also don’t have any “big” thing or agenda for this round.
The fact is some of us miss each other, or have new friends to introduce to one another, or are trying to keep up with our reading, etc. So, probably the main accent of this coming meeting is “friendship” and charting the remaining part of the year. Exploring some possibilities for Brian McLaren’s visit for 2007, and how we can “get ourselves organized” ?

If I can manage a little topic I will try – but I dare not make any promises yet. It’s been a fruitful time of ministry from a local church perspective and personal end like my experience with SIBKL’s E06 conference. So, there’s a lot on my mind. And lot’s to throw out for all to consider. I know Raj and CLGCPJ has something coming up with I think is good in November.

WHEN?
September, 17 SUNDAY
3pm

WHERE?
Bangsar Village
Star Bucks (got free wi-fi I heard)

WHAT?
Catch up .. and whatever I can manage to get us going.

Raj did an excellent paper on Ecclesiology .. which I’m very tempted to have him share a summary of his paper (rumor said *grin* it was very well done!)
It may be good to use his thoughts as a center and then others chip in ..

I know Kia Meng has been reading Jamie Smith’s book on Who’s afraid of postmodernism?
Yew Khuen on Volf’s Free of Charge
Jade owe’s us her thoughts on Wright’s Simply Christian

(Or cant we meet simply Because we miss each other?)

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Of course, it’s more than just wanting to meet up … it’s a chance to enrich and sharpen each other …